Closing the Avalon accounts of two long standing members

[Valley]

It seems to me that emotional 'connection' is a much healthier and enjoyable way to go. ...speaking of Love/positive vibrations, of course.

Posted by Carmody (here)
Seek emotional detachment.

[Bingo]

I've had a hard time piecing together all this info as I am anything but an insider. But having followed Bill these many years, even tho I have no direct relationship with him, I have grown fond of him and was horrified at these doings. Then I found myself getting annoyed at the mods for censoring Grip who is also quite admirable. It felt authoritarian and one began to wonder what was happening to the truth. Interesting journey. So I've come around now to a greater understanding (reading both threads) and have a full appreciation of the very hard and terrific job the mods have done here. I can see now the many possibilities for failure and it would indeed be tragic if this forum fell apart.

Maybe we can say we are stronger now. Thank you Paul, Dennis, Jake, Sierra for your patience and for your commitment to truth and right action. Thank you Ulii for your deep and profound thinking. I appreciate your efforts and you can accuse me of being too much of a New Yorker but I think you all (including Bill) should be paid for this!!

[Valley]

I was just speaking of my own realization that the 'ownership' of any physical object is only a fantasy, similar to playing a boardgame like Monopoly. We're just playing this 'game' of ownership that has been engrained into our minds by a controlled and manipulated society, which has been doing this for a long time.

For example... Let's say we all took a trip in a spaceship to another uninhabited planet, and we became stranded there without any help. Do you think it would work out if some people started grabbing things/food/shelter materials for themselves and kept them away from everyone else? Or, would it make much more sense to gather together all resources/food and divide them all somewhat equally? As soon as certain individuals start 'hoarding', it would very likely make it harder for others to survive... and there would begin to be conflicts over who was in control of, or who 'owned' the resources. ...(Sound familiar?)

Another 'problem' with the fantasy of 'owning' something is that there can easily become a fixation of mind or strong emotional attachment to the 'things', which can lead to the false notion that the 'ownership' of physical objects is more important than other people, and their feelings/well-being.

Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
Just a small sidetrack here - regarding ownership and how it was earlier argued (by Valley, I think) that owning something is old thinking and we should all relate to things as shared. Well, anyway that paraphrasing was what I got out of it. I get the idea, we shouldn't kling to possession. On the other hand I feel that this argument can't and should not be used as a caveat for stealing.

Because the logic fails in several points:
A.doesnt stealing of property then encompass the stealer to wan't to own something. No higher ground there.
B. The person who has been stealed from can't (to my knowledge anyway) take back the 60$ from the local grocery shop (a third party) just yet - everything is not that shared yet.
C. I find that if you replace the word owning with responsibility over something, it is easier to understand the dynamic. If I have a responsibility over 60$ or a dog or a garden, unless that responsibility is given away by:"would you take this and take care of it?", it doesn't really work, does it? You can't take over my responsibilityship and just be the new gardener or puppy walker unless consulting with me first?

Sorry to write it in so many words, but the point is: imho no new paradigm can create any caveat to take over the ownership (or responsibilityship) of really anything unless it is first agreed upon.

UT
Ps. I am sure that Valley didn't really mean the idea as a promise to steal, it just got me thinking of how we could see ownership in a different way.

[Valley]

I think Grip has probably 'gotten the message' by now, mods. If he was going to keep 'lashing out' or being 'insulting', I think he would have already done so by now... or has he done so maybe and already been 'censored'? And if he ever does that again... You can easily 'put him back in the cage' again, or delete his posts, his account... whatever you see fit. You've got nothing to be afraid of... right? As a showing of good faith I think it only makes sense to remove that 'leash' and let him once again 'roam free', like the rest of us... Don't you think so?

[transiten]

Posted by Valley (here)
It seems to me that emotional 'connection' is a much healthier and enjoyable way to go. ...speaking of Love/positive vibrations, of course.

Posted by Carmody (here)
Seek emotional detachment.

I think it's not either or, it's both!

Libra Moon

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Valley (here)
I think Grip has probably 'gotten the message' by now, mods. If he was going to keep 'lashing out' or being 'insulting', I think he would have already done so by now... or has he done so maybe and already been 'censored'? And if he ever does that again... You can easily 'put him back in the cage' again, or delete his posts, his account... whatever you see fit. You've got nothing to be afraid of... right? As a showing of good faith I think it only makes sense to remove that 'leash' and let him once again 'roam free', like the rest of us... Don't you think so?

Wow! is the only word that pops in my head. That and the thought that you've not followed this thread nor seen this most recent Bill post.

[Valley]

Posted by RunningDeer (here)

Posted by Valley (here)
I think Grip has probably 'gotten the message' by now, mods. If he was going to keep 'lashing out' or being 'insulting', I think he would have already done so by now... or has he done so maybe and already been 'censored'? And if he ever does that again... You can easily 'put him back in the cage' again, or delete his posts, his account... whatever you see fit. You've got nothing to be afraid of... right? As a showing of good faith I think it only makes sense to remove that 'leash' and let him once again 'roam free', like the rest of us... Don't you think so?

Wow! is the only word that pops in my head. That and the thought that you've not followed this thread nor seen this most recent Bill post.

As you can see, I made this post yesterday, before your reference to Bill's latest post announcing Grip's 'release'... which was today.
Also, I have been following the other thread you reference and have posted on it too.

Bless...

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Valley (here)

Posted by RunningDeer (here)

Posted by Valley (here)
I think Grip has probably 'gotten the message' by now, mods. If he was going to keep 'lashing out' or being 'insulting', I think he would have already done so by now... or has he done so maybe and already been 'censored'? And if he ever does that again... You can easily 'put him back in the cage' again, or delete his posts, his account... whatever you see fit. You've got nothing to be afraid of... right? As a showing of good faith I think it only makes sense to remove that 'leash' and let him once again 'roam free', like the rest of us... Don't you think so?

Wow! is the only word that pops in my head. That and the thought that you've not followed this thread nor seen this most recent Bill post.

As you can see, I made this post yesterday, before your reference to Bill's latest post... which was today.
Also, I have been following the other thread you reference and have posted on it too.

Bless...

Yes, I did see that. I wouldn’t know where to begin, Valley. It's too much of a mishmash of adjective phrases, 1950’s guilt trip and you naughty little boy go sit in the corner and don't pick at the wall paper. That's why "Wow" was all I could offer.

That and Bill's post for further clarity.

Bless, back...

[Mike]

Posted by RunningDeer (here)

Posted by Valley (here)

Posted by RunningDeer (here)

Posted by Valley (here)
I think Grip has probably 'gotten the message' by now, mods. If he was going to keep 'lashing out' or being 'insulting', I think he would have already done so by now... or has he done so maybe and already been 'censored'? And if he ever does that again... You can easily 'put him back in the cage' again, or delete his posts, his account... whatever you see fit. You've got nothing to be afraid of... right? As a showing of good faith I think it only makes sense to remove that 'leash' and let him once again 'roam free', like the rest of us... Don't you think so?

Wow! is the only word that pops in my head. That and the thought that you've not followed this thread nor seen this most recent Bill post.

As you can see, I made this post yesterday, before your reference to Bill's latest post... which was today.
Also, I have been following the other thread you reference and have posted on it too.

Bless...

Yes, I did see that. I wouldn’t know where to begin, Valley. It's too much of a mishmash of adjective phrases, 1950’s guilting and you naughty little boy go sit in the corner and pick at the wall paper. That's why "Wow" was all I could offer.

That and Bill's post for further clarity.

Bless, back...

...................

[regnak]

I have waited a bit to post again on this topic .This is a very public forum but this is a very private matter for Bill Ryan not a very good combination would it have been
better to have a announcement on the moderators page rather than drag the issue through the mud kill it quickly and quietly .

nothing to see here men at work

[Marianne]

Jonsnow, Paul explained it here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1025556

Posted by Paul
As I might have mentioned already, this matter, the one that deserves public discussion, is not really about Bill's private affairs, but rather about Avalon withdrawing its implicit endorsement of whatever counseling work with systemically abused clients in which Christine and karelia might be engaging.

[Valley]

I agree... Detaching/disconnecting from negative thoughts/feelings/emotions is a wise practice... And connecting with positive/uplifting/healthy energies/emotions is very good for us.

Wishing All Well...

Posted by transiten (here)

Posted by Valley (here)
It seems to me that emotional 'connection' is a much healthier and enjoyable way to go. ...speaking of Love/positive vibrations, of course.

Posted by Carmody (here)
Seek emotional detachment.

I think it's not either or, it's both!

Libra Moon

[araucaria]

Posted by Marianne (here)
Jonsnow, Paul explained it here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1025556

Posted by Paul
As I might have mentioned already, this matter, the one that deserves public discussion, is not really about Bill's private affairs, but rather about Avalon withdrawing its implicit endorsement of whatever counseling work with systemically abused clients in which Christine and karelia might be engaging.

Yes, Marianne and Paul, and as a goodwill gesture to Christine and Karelia, may I suggest that this thread, at least in its public manifestation, be whittled down to that core element – namely “Avalon withdraws its implicit endorsement of whatever counseling work with systemically abused clients any of its (former) members might be engaging.” This is reasonably enough to meet Jeffrey’s demands while stopping short of giving to his ultimatum, and would help to further peaceful relations with other websites that are supposed to be friendly. We can really remove from the public forum all those posts by members letting off steam on the basis of insufficient data owing to privacy issues. I am not saying these are illegitimate concerns that have been expressed: simply, they are not, or rather no longer, needed or wanted on the public forum. Everyone can back down at this stage without losing face.

[Limor Wolf]

The backpack that this man carries seems very uncomfortable, not a good quality brand, can we discuss that?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multim...uy_357623c.jpg

[transiten]

Which are the arguments for not discussing the embezzlement of Avalonians donations to the forum? In what way are they "private matters"? I have not made any donations myself but this I fail to understand. Excuse me if this is discussed somewhere, i have tried to read almost every post so far.

I faintly remember someone saying something like since Bill and Christine were married and since C maybe didn't have any resources to fall back on the donations somehow were part of her salary from having done the healingwork?
English not being my native language I might have misunerstood things here.

[ulli]

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
The backpack that this man carries seems very uncomfortable, not a good quality brand, can we discuss that?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multim...uy_357623c.jpg

Limor, you are too funny.

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
The backpack that this man carries seems very uncomfortable, not a good quality brand, can we discuss that?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multim...uy_357623c.jpg

Limor, you are too funny.

Oh, thanks Ulli, than I may have missed the goal

[ulli]

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
The backpack that this man carries seems very uncomfortable, not a good quality brand, can we discuss that?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multim...uy_357623c.jpg

Limor, you are too funny.

Oh, thanks Ulli, than I may have missed the goal

I don't think so.
I meant the way you transmit your intent is funny.

[Bingo]

Really Limor? I'd say it was rather sporty. It may not be comfortable, but it is quite attractive. Is it affordable, do you think?

[Fairy Friend]

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
The backpack that this man carries seems very uncomfortable, not a good quality brand, can we discuss that?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multim...uy_357623c.jpg

Oh my! She maybe right. Some things do seem off. Can't quite put my finger on it. May not want to.....but may, at least certain parts but not sure......thinking......