Israel vs Palestine/Lebanon/Iran/Yemen/Syria: a New Middle East War

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/matincantweet/status/1714827638403936745

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https://x.com/Sprinter99800/status/1714686489731162467

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1714796564055548283

https://x.com/Sprinter99800/status/1714767252938015114

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/QudsNen/status/1714819030106742917

[shaberon]

Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)
His, and his friends’ intent was only to get away from what they felt to be a doomed Europe – doomed because it had sent most youngsters of their generation to die amidst mud, rats and gas.

Interesting.

Describes the settlement of the U. S., refugees from Europe mostly. Only a tiny few could have been described as "brave new world explorers" in the colonies; about 49% German at the time.

1800s was automatic asylum for Italian refugees from the Pope.

Things are different now, but, that is why there was a main early bloc of British/Germans/Italians. Not for a change of scenery, for escape.

People like Kafka who went to Palestine probably had no idea they were being lured into the new death machine, and then even through the 50s-60s, people like the Irgun were probably not quite making headlines, and so it would have still been difficult to know. I am trying to recall when I first heard anything about Israel other than as victims of the Nazis.

I think it was indirect, after a few Germans told me about Germany. I was raised to mistrust the United States, but that did not come with much additional information. The lack of trust led me to question why Germans were being painted as pure evil. Eventually I got an opportunity to choose a topic for a school paper, which landed right around Kafka:

What was Germany in the inter-war years?

How do you go from burning cash to stay warm, and turn around suddenly having an advanced arms industry?


And so I think it was the lack of consistency--or even sensibility--to the common story of Germany, which led to questions about Israel.

Had to figure it out on my own. No one told me anything. Once it started, it was like wiping haze off a mirror.

Well, that was probably ten years after questioning Christianity, but I was not pressing religious issues into modern politics.

I don't like politics. A government should work so efficiently that you can basically ignore it. Much to my chagrin, because Europe and the US are vassals of lies and violence, I don't recommend looking the other way while they are at their offices.

I can sympathize with not knowing about this stuff, but what I don't get is the inability to accept new information, or the emotional resistance about processing it and changing oneself inside.

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/ME_Observer_/status/1714807016487575808

https://x.com/ME_Observer_/status/1714814221764960585

[shaberon]

Minor update by way of repeating the same message.


Joining the chorus:


Iran’s Chief Rabbi has condemned the anti-human acts and policies of the Zionist regime of Israel after the regime’s military carried out a brutal bombing against a hospital in the Palestinian enclave of Gaza, killing at least 500 people.

Younes Hamami Lalehzar said on Wednesday that the crimes committed by the Israeli regime should not be linked to the Jews and their religion.



And, learning his name, he is in a picture from a synagogue shown in another interview in the UK Independent 2016:

Despite its often turbulent dealings with Israel, Iran has one of the world's largest and longest-established Jewish communities - and it's growing.

"Benjamin Netanyahu and the anti-Semites need each other: they supply each other with what they need – intolerance and hatred." This is the vehemently held view of Ciamak Morsadegh, a newly elected Iranian parliamentarian. "It is an unspoken alliance which suits them, but it causes great harm to the rest of us." The MP is Jewish, representing the largest Jewish community in the Middle East outside Israel, one that is growing in size while those in almost all other Muslim countries in the region have shrunk severely or disappeared altogether – largely due to persecution.

"The fact is, Iran is a place where Jews feel secure and we are happy to be here," he says. "We are proud to be Iranian. I know this doesn't follow the Zionist script, but this is the reality."

"No one forces the Jews to stay here," says Morsadegh, a large figure, full of energy, at his office in the Sapir Medical Centre in Tehran. "The Israelis offer money to Jewish people to emigrate to Israel, but we choose to stay. My view is that the actions of Netanyahu and his government, the way they behave towards the Palestinians, cause problems for Jews everywhere. I am not the only one holding these views. Am I not allowed to say it because I am a Jew? " He waves his arms amid a haze of smoke from his constant chain of Winston cigarettes.

"Traditionally, the Jewish community here has been in medicine and pharmacy, while in the West they have been a lot in finance. They do very well in these fields and other professions as well; there isn't that much interest in politics," he replies. "We have been left to get on with our lives. We haven't had the terrible pogroms that happened in the West – which were due to Christian intolerance – and even now we can see the situation is dangerous for Jews in Europe. Synagogues need to be guarded there because of attacks. There is no need for any of that here."

"Intermarriage to other communities is very low here, just 0.1 per cent of the population; it's 40 per cent in the UK, I think, and 20 per cent even in Israel, so you see the difference. The numbers are going up because the birth rate is quite high among our people, but it is by a very small amount."

There are different chronologies of the Jewish presence in what is now Iran. It began, it is believed, in 722BC, when the Assyrian king Shalmaneser V conquered Israel and sent the 10 "lost tribes" into exile.

Back to Rabbi Lalehzar 2021:

"Orthodox Jews, first opposed Zionists",

" Zionism is inspired by European nationalist movements with emphasis on some Jewish ambitions without maintaining the religious aspects that is why several orthodox Jews were against the movement from the beginning."

Rabbi Younes Hamami Lalehzar added that the first opposition with Zionism was on the side of Jews and orthodox Jews because they do not recognize that as a lifestyle or path of Prophet Moses (AS).

He referred to the Jewish community living in the occupied lands that oppose and clash with Zionists.

Leader of the Jewish community referred to the active role of the Iranian Jews for annual International Quds Day ceremony.

He called on the world Jews to stand by the oppressed Palestinians in the occupied lands.

And this is what we get:


Little white shoe





My name was Haya. I am not in difference with the rest of the children in the world except that I am from Gaza.

That little white shoe was my only treasure. I wear it everywhere, because I am from Gaza. We never had many shoes, toys, food, or even air. The enemy of our ancestors stole everything around us. Our fathers forgave them for occupying most of our country and did not allow us for staying there.

I was wearing that white shoe yesterday morning, October 17, 2023. I was with my mother in al-Mamdani Hospital, which no longer exists today, awaiting news about the health condition of my little brother who was injured in the Israeli bombing of our house the day before.

On my way to the hospital, I just wanted to see my little brother coming home with us, and I looked at my white shoes, and I thought to myself, “If my mother would buy my brother white shoes of his own when we returned.”

Israeli occupation planes bombed the hospital above everyone’s heads.

My white shoes no longer make a difference. Perhaps they make a difference to you who live in distant parts of this big world… and perhaps you have a lot of shoes and do not want more. As for me, my brother, and my mother, the Israelis gave us all white shrouds.

[Tintin]

Posted by Rizotto (here)
Were there not reports of TWO separate attacks on the Gaza hospital?

Yes, there were: do see Bill's post back up here, (post #628) from the Moon of Alabama, and, quote:

Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed:
14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured. Sources: Al Jazeera V and Personal Communication

Much has been made of this incident, and whoever being responsible, and it is of course terrible (and criminal) whoever is culpable. But it is a tragic corollary of the decades old "mowing" that Israeli Zionists have been visiting on the Palestinian population before, and that they continue to do regardless of whoever was responsible for attacking the hospital, all condemnable events.

-------------

Some passing thoughts, right now, after only one cup of tea; I'll need more:

We are somewhat more awake here on this forum, for example, to the nuances between Jewish-ness and Zion-ist which aren't really nuanced but poles apart ideologically, let alone spiritually; one being set up (created) to besmirch through expropriation, the other; a cloak.

I'm with those seeking a humanitarian resolution to this and understand very well the frustrations of the Orthodox Jews in Israel who are anti-Zionist, as I am. Those Jews - the practitioners of the faith - not an ethnic group (and oh how those have become conflated, by deliberate design!) are some of the most important voices to be heard here. Those Torahic faithful should be invited to sit on a UN Peace Resolution Council as a permanent member.

Anti-Zionist isn't anti-Semitic: this is a deliberate linguistic trick, and an oxymoron. Folks bandy around these terms as if we're all in agreement about what they mean. Well, I missed that meeting.

As has been correctly pointed out by others here on this thread (@shaberon and @Michel_Leclerc I think) 'Semitic' relates only ever to language, as in the Druidic tradition where one can never be anti-Semitic as it too, the phrase, is an oxymoronic construct. One can never be against the "man who hears" or the "people who listen."

Being clearer in our interactions linguistically would be a very good start in wading through the trenches of treacle laid before us. If we do use these phrases then let's perhaps do so with some understanding of what they actually mean, or, maybe not at all.

We're doing alright here I'd say. Not perfect, but making a really good go of it

If only our well intentioned efforts could inflame the internet more widely.

End of some passing thoughts, and on to another much needed cup of tea

[grapevine]

Posted by Miller (here)
I miss loads all the time . . .(Has anyone got any tips for picking up where they left off??)

I worked this out for myself, and for others: Bookmark the last post you thanked as a marker

Posted by Sirus (here)
Why would Hamas be telling the truth though?

I don’t think anyone’s telling the truth in this situation, which is often a moot area anyway, depending on personal pov and how we are personally impacted. And in some cultures, telling the truth isn’t necessarily the same “truth” as ours. As has been said in other posts, innocent people are dying and more than one hospital has been bombed in this conflict so maybe we shouldn’t get hung up on that right now. Finding a way forward and stop escalation is paramount.

To this end, I feel this can only be done diplomatically by an uncompromised party who is trusted by all involved, and it’s becoming increasingly obvious that this is Russia/Putin, who has already spoken to all leaders in the surrounding states.

So where could they start?

On GB News yesterday, there was a panel discussion about Gaza and Stephen Pound (ex Labour MP) commented that if the surrounding Arab states each donated .001% of their GDP, Palestine would be a paradise. This is a great place to start rather than ploughing their money into English football clubs when there’s trouble at home. And why not donate some land and give Palestine a place of their own, as was done for Israel years back? Israel as well.

Obviously I’m not a diplomat and my suggestion as it is above would probably start WW3, but an experienced diplomat could negotiate a way forward acceptable to all sides, and if only one state agrees then it’s a start (thinking Henry Fonda in 12 Angry Men). In the West we’ve been led to believe that the leaders of the Arab states are (more than) a little unstable, but I don’t think this is the case. All most people want is to live their lives in peace with families and friends. It's only those with vested interests - and we all know who they are - who are behind world chaos. We've all had enough. Let's vote them out (Idealist speak I know).

[Tintin]

Posted by Miller (here)
SLAUGHTERHOUSE 5 - MOATS with George Galloway Ep 283

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HGNbkzhaZq8

Scott Ritter presenting the MOATS show tonight with the emphasis on Palestine.

The opening segment here delivered with typical panache

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Vm54KiW9a4s

[thirtythree]

Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)

Posted by thirtythree (here)
Nope. I do not trust the BBC one bit.

The stranglehold that Israel has over NATO media has never been demonstrated so clearly as between 8pm and midnight (UK time) yesterday.

At around 8pm UK time, BBC and all other NATO media reported a huge “Israeli airstrike” on a Gaza hospital that had killed hundreds maybe even over a 1,000 given that the hospital itself was bombed so the wounded would not get treatment. Complete carnage.

The headlines on ALL articles specifically said “Israeli airstrike”.

None other than Hananya Naftali IDF digital spokesperson quickly claimed responsibility with a tweet that he later deleted.

https://t.me/warmonitors/16345



Another Israeli government account said that “euthanasia” had been provided to collapsing Gaza hospitals. That tweet was also deleted.

Israel has been giving evacuation orders to hospitals all week and threatening to bomb them.

With immediate outrage over the next 3 hours, the entire NATO media narrative quckly scrubbed those headlines replacing it with “Israel blames xyz” soon to be followed by Israel has “proof” that xyz dunnit.

You do not trust the BBC one bit? So when they report the football scores do you actually think they are all wrong and England didn't beat Italy 3-1 last night and they actually are not qualifying for the euros.


The BBC definitely have an agenda on many issues including this one but they are also under some scrutiny. Although I am sceptical of all. I would trust what they say on this issue more than I would on jihadist publications that have more skin in the game.

It sounds like from your post that we should apportion blame by the nature of social media posts and not hard forensic evidence that exists from video footage of the event and the aftermath on the ground. So the police would be better at investigating crimes by analysing the social media posts than by doing a thorough investigation of the crime scene?

Im not even convinced that Hananya Naftali is the IDF spokesperson. Although he does seem to work with the government as a social media advisor and content creator.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPales..._spokesperson/

Naftali is an Israeli human rights activist with more than 350,000 followers and has been continuously tweeting about the conflict.

He describes himself as: “That Israeli who talks to the camera about peace in the Middle East.”

Even if he is a IDF spokesperson, his tweets were not necessarily made with full awareness of all the details of the incident. This is not evidence that israel did it.

This is Hananya Naftalis response

Following the uproar, Naftali quickly apologised on Twitter, claiming he was simply quoting an article he had seen on Reuters.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/10/1...s-responsible/

Actually I think this is quite interesting

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MvogHimGuWo

I wouldn't be surprised if the agenda is to purposely make this whole event very ambiguous to decipher. To further create division.

Absurd comparison of the coverage of a potential attack on a hospital and the reporting of a football game that is watched by millions and recorded live by thousands.

My skepticism is based on BBC's history of coverups and Israel's track record of lies and human rights violations. I don't believe BBC is impartial in this conflict.

You assume that i believe Jihadi publications because i'm suspicious of MSM?
In light of current events, I will agree though that i'm paying more heed to raw information than a carefully constructed narrative.

[Tintin]

"Ceasefire Now!" in the Capitol

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Tintin (here)
"Ceasefire Now!" in the Capitol

Yes, what's happening in Gaza is horrible but it's Hamas and Hamas's own charter that is blatantly calling for genocide of a peoples.
And then Israels response to Hamas appears genocidal, how can either side expect peace to magically appear behaving like this?
Everything about this whole ordeal is wrong, upside down and backwards.

[Rizotto]

Very interesting insights from Scott Ritter: the USA armed forces are short of thousands of personel and couldn't handle wars with Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, Russia. The Israeli armed forces aren't that good, and Netanyahu is in a weak position having lost much of Israelis' trust, many of whom might prefer to just leave Isreal for good. The recent Ukrainian ATCM attack against a Russian airfield was a relatively minor event that has since provided the Russian armed forces with data to prevent any further such attacks. Russian forces' occupation of Karkov will become permanent, another region that Ukraine lost because of its insistence on fighting Russian forces. Etc.

(In fact, this interview might just as well belong in the Ukraine war thread, as half of it is about Ukraine.)

"War with Iran would be SUICIDE and the U.S. will lose" - Scott Ritter | Redacted w Clayton Morris

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lG-rPncdRiY

[Tintin]

From the lips of those who speak truth Perhaps better expressed as "the land occupied by Zionists and named Israel defined as 'The Holy Land'.

Source: https://twitter.com/TorahJudaism/sta...18885381836918

Text:

"Israel is not the land of the Jewish People. The Jewish people are an ancient religious entity, not a nationality.
The land of Israel is defined in Judaism as the 'Holy Land', not a political state. Zionism is a distortion of Judaism.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Tintin (here)
For 75 years, the Israeli government has illegally occupied Palestinian land and ethnically cleansed their communities.

A couple of days ago I posted images of an official Palestine stamp and a coin from when it was its own sovereign territory, prior to 1948.

Here's more. Just for the record. ("The history of Israel" might warrant its own thread, of course, but it really is relevant here. Nothing in the Middle East will ever be resolved until the Palestinian injustice is addressed.)

[Tintin]

Source: Soundcloud

Emergency Broadcast - Israel's Hospital Massacre & the Gaza Genocide - Empire Files from October 18th

I'm just now starting to listen to this, as described. emergency broadcast from Mike Prysner and Abby Martin. Abby is Ritter-level cross near the beginning here, and with much justification.

As many of us know here both Mike and Abby have spent time in the past documenting what happens in Gaza, on the ground.

It's here in the library as an mp3. It's a good couple hours long but here for those interested on what they have to say.



----------------------------

RELATED:

GAZA FIGHTS FOR FREEDOM (2019)

Here's Empire Files' 2019 documentary - a must see, that I put in the library a couple of years or so ago

[Dorjezigzag]

Posted by thirtythree (here)

Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)

Posted by thirtythree (here)
Nope. I do not trust the BBC one bit.

The stranglehold that Israel has over NATO media has never been demonstrated so clearly as between 8pm and midnight (UK time) yesterday.

At around 8pm UK time, BBC and all other NATO media reported a huge “Israeli airstrike” on a Gaza hospital that had killed hundreds maybe even over a 1,000 given that the hospital itself was bombed so the wounded would not get treatment. Complete carnage.

The headlines on ALL articles specifically said “Israeli airstrike”.

None other than Hananya Naftali IDF digital spokesperson quickly claimed responsibility with a tweet that he later deleted.

https://t.me/warmonitors/16345



Another Israeli government account said that “euthanasia” had been provided to collapsing Gaza hospitals. That tweet was also deleted.

Israel has been giving evacuation orders to hospitals all week and threatening to bomb them.

With immediate outrage over the next 3 hours, the entire NATO media narrative quckly scrubbed those headlines replacing it with “Israel blames xyz” soon to be followed by Israel has “proof” that xyz dunnit.

You do not trust the BBC one bit? So when they report the football scores do you actually think they are all wrong and England didn't beat Italy 3-1 last night and they actually are not qualifying for the euros.


The BBC definitely have an agenda on many issues including this one but they are also under some scrutiny. Although I am sceptical of all. I would trust what they say on this issue more than I would on jihadist publications that have more skin in the game.

It sounds like from your post that we should apportion blame by the nature of social media posts and not hard forensic evidence that exists from video footage of the event and the aftermath on the ground. So the police would be better at investigating crimes by analysing the social media posts than by doing a thorough investigation of the crime scene?

Im not even convinced that Hananya Naftali is the IDF spokesperson. Although he does seem to work with the government as a social media advisor and content creator.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPales..._spokesperson/

Naftali is an Israeli human rights activist with more than 350,000 followers and has been continuously tweeting about the conflict.

He describes himself as: “That Israeli who talks to the camera about peace in the Middle East.”

Even if he is a IDF spokesperson, his tweets were not necessarily made with full awareness of all the details of the incident. This is not evidence that israel did it.

This is Hananya Naftalis response

Following the uproar, Naftali quickly apologised on Twitter, claiming he was simply quoting an article he had seen on Reuters.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/10/1...s-responsible/

Actually I think this is quite interesting

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MvogHimGuWo

I wouldn't be surprised if the agenda is to purposely make this whole event very ambiguous to decipher. To further create division.

Absurd comparison of the coverage of a potential attack on a hospital and the reporting of a football game that is watched by millions and recorded live by thousands.

My skepticism is based on BBC's history of coverups and Israel's track record of lies and human rights violations. I don't believe BBC is impartial in this conflict.

You assume that i believe Jihadi publications because i'm suspicious of MSM?
In light of current events, I will agree though that i'm paying more heed to raw information than a carefully constructed narrative.

I really wish people would thoroughly read my posts before commenting back and misrepresenting my words

This was a light hearted way to point out the absurdity of your comment that you don't believe the BBC one bit. Of course, on many news reports you will trust what they report. For instance on the football.

I said myself in my post that I believe the BBC have an agenda on the Israel issue and I am sceptical. That is different to saying I do not believe the BBC one bit which would be an inauthentic statement. Sometimes the BBC can report something that will be useful and I can asses it through the lens of their known agenda

Where did I say in my post that you believe Jihadi publications because you don't believe the BBC one bit? That is you jumping to a conclusion that I did not make

I'm just merely pointing out they have an agenda as well. That they should be treated as sceptically if not more than the BBC because they have more skin in the game .

But I am not going to make ludicrous statements like 'I do not trust Jihadi publications one bit' because they probably have some interesting insights on certain issues which again I can asses through the lens of their known agenda

[Gwin Ru]

...

... long, detailed article with documenting videos and twxxtx:

The Israeli Massacre At Al-Ahli Hospital In Gaza: Fact vs Fiction
The Last American Vagabonds

Similar from Mike Adams investigating what is known about the kill shot:

BREAKING: Compelling video evidence points to Israeli AIR BURST bomb striking al-Ahli hospital grounds, killing hundreds of Palestinian civilians as they slept on courtyard grounds adjacent to the parking lot
10/19/2023 // Mike Adams //

[ExomatrixTV]

• Is World War 3 Next? What China is Doing NOW!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=CWNuHp8Qu4o

Israel and Hamas are at war and many have speculated this is the start of World War 3. What's astonishing is that some people are even claiming that China is behind this! What is China's official stance on the war? Is China supporting Hamas? What is the truth behind China and Israel, let's break it all down in today's video!

• MSM Got Gaza Hospital Story WRONG; So-Called 'DISINFORMATION' Expert's EPIC FAIL: Robby Soave

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ew8QpS2xlkE

Robby Soave criticizes media coverage of the bombing of the hospital in Gaza.

• What Did Biden Promise Netanyahu?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=kBnKqH-AOyM

President Biden has completed his meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, with media reporting that he gave a "green light" for Israel to begin a ground operation in Gaza. Many questions remain unanswered, including the role of US military assets in the area and what mission, if any, US troops might have in support of Israeli military action. Also today: Jewish peace groups arrested in US Capitol office buildings and rockets begin flying into US bases in Iraq and Syria.

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Tintin (here)
For 75 years, the Israeli government has illegally occupied Palestinian land and ethnically cleansed their communities.

A couple of days ago I posted images of an official Palestine stamp and a coin from when it was its own sovereign territory, prior to 1948.

Here's more. Just for the record. ("The history of Israel" might warrant its own thread, of course, but it really is relevant here. Nothing in the Middle East will ever be resolved until the Palestinian injustice is addressed.)

If you research maps of this area you'll see it had many names and inhabited by many different tribes for several thousands of years. Before 1900 there was never a map that I know of that actually had a section of land on it with the word "Palestine" written as a specific country. I'm no expert but I believe the word Palestine derived from the word Philistia or Phillastines, which actually was a tribal area of where Gaza is now. Gaza is a very ancient city.
That whole area where Israel/Gaza/West bank is now was called Judea, Samaria, and Galilee for a long long time. The whole area was fought over, renamed, and had different boundries many times over. The more you research this area the more one realizes the word Palestine could actually mean a region of many tribes of peoples.
The whole history of the middle east is so complex and confusing it's no wonder its a tinder box over there. Then having outsiders coming in there telling them how they should live etc even makes matters worse.