The simple facts and fictions about Israel and Zionism: How to debunk blatantly false Zionist propaganda

[Bill Ryan]

Just one or two comments.

1. Do see this thread: Social media discussion rarely changes anyone's minds.
   
   
2. All of Planet Earth urgently needs a giant reset, but there's a lot of evidence that this will happen naturally quite soon. The 'west' has done a very great deal to destroy so much of value on the planet. And the 'west's decline and fall is likely to happen all on its own.
   .
3. This thread's topic (what's true and false about Israel and Zionism) has been derailed. Kryztian, who started the thread with a professional and well-thought-out presentation, last visited the thread 5 days ago. That should tell us all something.
   .
4. Of course, I have issues with Sharia Law. But that doesn't justify Israeli's hateful, psychopathic, and anti-human barbarism. There are ways that life on Earth could be very different indeed for every one of us, but they seem to be almost completely out of reach. And arguments about which shallow-minded and self-interested politicians are right and which are wrong on forum threads like this don't help any of us one tiny bit.

[shaberon]

Posted by Mike (here)
I honestly don't know if you're pretending not to know what the west is and why it's important or if you really don't know.

In the last 5 years pretty much all I've done is talk about the importance of the west, why it should be preserved, and so on

I know what it is. It's the Roman system that failed at the Olympics, wiped out the Druids, distorted Christianity, and caused all of the historical problems about Judaism.

What I'm missing is the value of that.


I'd take a three-sentence intro if it had some validity. I'm a little leery since Zionism poses itself as the vanguard. Or three famous exponents, if they are other than Oliver Cromwell, Woodrow Wilson, or Harry Truman. If you really have been posting something like this for years, it hasn't got any traction. Others who seem to share the view have been ineffective at expressing anything compelling about it. This is unlike anything else, where a few books, figureheads, and general conversation will give us a basic picture in a matter of minutes, which is what a Nation is.

If we can't sit here in the same language and rapidly identify where we are, it's not a nation, it's a statist collective of humans in a geographical area.

Comparatively, Orthodoxy and Islam are forces that I don't really agree with, but they actually can pass the bar of dialogue by asserting their principles and forming a cohesive unit. I expect westerners to close their eyes, calling them theories and opinions. But is there a reply of equal stature?

[shaberon]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
This thread's topic (what's true and false about Israel and Zionism) has been derailed.

Not entirely. Surely the Australian episode is a prime example.

A country filled with hundreds of thousands of protesters "recognized" Palestine, a few days after which, violence is blamed on Iran without any investigation.

It could have been done by any Australian, or, there are plenty of other Jihadi organizations that might be glad to do it. The Iranian state just doesn't seem to have the equivalent of global Mossad plants to trigger reactions at will. Most Israeli actions are a "symbolic strike" shortly after any "challenge question".

I recall around 1910, a Maori trying to indoctrinate himself into the new English system, walking away saying "You don't worship divinity. You worship the police, courts, and magistrates".

Seems to be happening now.

There are enough non-inquiries based on having some pat answer within a matter of days, as long as it can frame the "enemy" somehow, whereas any real quest for evidence like with Nordstream just dissipates and achieves nothing.

Iran shot Trump on the campaign trail, it burned Australian Jews, it has a military stockpile in Yemen...none of these foregone conclusions are realistic.

I would say it is true that the press release on this matter carried the most base level of sensationalism, and it is a pre-prepared alibi, where the facts of the matter will go the way of most of these other case, that is, buried. Some points being raised deserve a different thread, but good timing on this one because it appears to be a model of the topic.

[Ravenlocke]

Pointless.

[betoobig]

Posted by Raskolnikov (here)

Posted by betoobig (here)
Fiction: Jews are humans and the rest of humans are cattle.
Fact: Jews are so programmed as to not believe their own eyes.

Fiction: Jews are God´s chosen people.
Fact: is Satan who choose them.

Fiction: Jews can override the will of Source.
Fact: arrogance is prime characteristic of Jews.

Fiction: Jews will reign with everyone as their slaves.
Fact: Jews can kiss my sovereign ass.

Fiction: Jews pray to God.
Fact: they worship the devil.

i could go on forever but it is a fact a 4 to 6 perccent will be lost forever in the awakening and it is a fact this devils go first...

Fact: so much love

I agree with most of that betoobig, but shouldn't we narrow it down to Zionists? Or maybe the Ashkenazi's? I have difficulty believing that all Jews are satanic child killers because many Jews are strongly opposed to Zionism. No, I don't have a definition for Zionism, but they're getting damn close above.

I fully agree with you... Akhenazis or even Cananites or filisteos... we could also say the reptilian´s minions....
Much love

[Mike]

Posted by shaberon (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
I honestly don't know if you're pretending not to know what the west is and why it's important or if you really don't know.

In the last 5 years pretty much all I've done is talk about the importance of the west, why it should be preserved, and so on

If you really have been posting something like this for years, it hasn't gotten any traction.

Apparently! If only I had your charm, maybe I might have reached a few people.

Bill, Gemma was willing to engage in good faith with Chris. Chris quickly realized he was out over his skis and he left. The thread being "off topic" gave him the out he needed. That doesn't make him the adult in the room.

But he can have his thread. I'll officially exit. When I feel moved to do it, I'll start my own.

[shaberon]

Posted by Mike (here)
If only I had your charm, maybe I might have reached a few people.

It doesn't really take charm, just a rally point, like MK Gandhi:


What do you think of western civilization?

Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

Concerning the nature of the thread, a couple of weeks ago, didn't the same person start "The end of Israel..."? It hasn't exactly been rapid-fire updated or replied.

I am a little surprised that there are blanket assumptions that the whole forum is pro-western or anti-Islam. If you have a "message" about this, it may be best to treat everyone as if they are brand new, since we don't live up to those assumptions.

I would maintain the Australian arson is too reminiscent of a "planned narrative", however this also has no traction or has no attention in other places, because it is not particularly important if an Iranian ambassador leaves there. Nothing has happened, effectively.

[Kryztian]

Posted by rgray222 (here)

Posted by Kryztian (here)
This thread is rapidly going off topic - this is about propaganda - about very specific claims and debunking them. The question is - what is the issue we are talking about: is it about "Israel vs. Palestine" or is it "Islam vs. something else". (I would probably be a lot more interested in the Israel topic, and debates about the general character of Islam is just not a use of time I am interested in.)

Removing Islam from any dialogue about Israel and Palestinians would immediately render the discussion meaningless. If you think this is about a two-state solution or who owned what land back in 1150 BCE or how the borders have shifted around since 1948, then you're kidding yourself. Pure and simple, the discussion is about Islam's unequivocal demand for the dissolution or the annihilation of Israel. This is exactly why chasing peace has been an impossible, never-ending quest.

Where the heck did I say anything like I was trying to remove Islam from the dialogue?????? My posts above made references to the Moslems in Palestine and it's Islamic history with and the keywords in my parenthetical sentence above you are quoting are "general character".

(I would probably be a lot more interested in [debating] the Israel topic, and [B]debates about the general character of Islam.)

The "general character" many are insisting here is a gross simplification of a religion that has 1400 years of history spanning from Morocco to Indonesia. To just define a religion or a group of merely by it's very worst acts by a minority of it's members. Would you have an accurate picture of the Christian world if you just defined it by the Spanish Inquisition, the forced conversions of indigenous peoples and the destruction of their culture, witch burnings, clergy sexual abuse, church backed slavery and apartheid, electro-shock based gay conversion therapy, etc? Focusing on any of these issues and the "general character" of any religion just doesn't give you the picture of what is really happening. In the same way, focus on a stereotypical negative "general character" of Judiasm (stoning, subjugation of women) doesn't really tell you much about the Jews of today, or about Israel and its 77-year history of racism and violence.

The only way to have an honest, fact-based, discussion here is to focus on the details of reality, which would certainly reference the very dominant presence of Islam in Palestine and which would also reference some overwhelmingly clear realities:

• the mostly peaceful co-existence of various religious peoples (Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Druze, Bahai, etc.) under the Ottoman Empire (Islamic) and British Empire (Christian)
  
  
• the extremely intolerant and violent and unjust Zionist government which was formed out of Zionist terrorist groups (Hagannah, Lehi, Irgun) that imported weapons and turned them on non-Jewish residents and forced a million and a half people to leave the country or die . The leveling of towns once occupied by Palestinians to prevent them from returning. The continual theft of land and destruction of Arabic communities by the Israeli courts and bureaucracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

Pure and simple, the discussion is about Islam's unequivocal demand for the dissolution or the annihilation of Israel.

What a ridiculously grandiose and absurd statement. Islam is a religion, and there is nothing in the tenets of the religion that say anything about Israel. There are plenty of Moslems who have Israeli citizenship who have defended Zionism, so there is nothing "unequivocal" here.

As for the dissolution of Israel, most of the world's decent people are for that, regardless of religion, in the same way decent people wanted to see the end of Nazi Germany, the Khmer Rogue, the Rwanda Genocide, South African Apartheid, Suharto's Indonesia, Chile under Pinochet, etc, etc, etc. Of course Muslims and Christians in Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon have had a front seat ticket to watch the atrocities that Israel has been committing for since it's creation 1948 and even before. Just as the end of the 3rd Reich didn't mean the end of Germany, ending "Israel" does not mean that the Jews who have moved there in the last century have to leave - it just means the end of apartheid and genocide, it means the people who peacefully lived there and were forced to leave get to return, and their descendants too. And as Germany went through a period of de-Nazification after World War II, it means a peacefully society can only be created if something is done about all the Zionists who still think it is acceptable to use violence to create a purely Jewish controlled state.

[rgray222]

Posted by Kryztian (here)
Where the heck did I say anything like I was trying to remove Islam from the dialogue?

Posted by Kryztian (here)
debates about the general character of Islam is just not a use of time I am interested in.

The general character of Islam is at the of the very center of Oct 7th massacre of Jews and the Israeli destruction of GAZA.

My apologies if the current Israeli/Palestinain situation was not on topic.

[Kryztian]

Sorry for the delay in answering this. A lot to think about here ...

Posted by Gemma13 (here)
Let’s take a look at the two globalists currently threatening all nations. One is headquartered in the East, the other in the West. Both suck, and both are competing against each other, but one has cleverly hitched its wagon to the other for a free ride. That be the East.

The West’s Hydra is the Great Reset, New World Order, or whatever brand they're running with. No borders, socialist-communist equality for the classes determined and handed down by global elites, and economies controlled by super entities like the United Nations and multinational corporations.

The East's Hydra also has a name: Exporting the Iranian Revolution—and they're not shy about sharing this mandate. They've just taken a little longer than the West to develop sophistication, but they got there. Khomeini says "The exporting of this revolution means the export of revolutionary values and the revelation of the tyrants and oppressors of the world, it is our divine duty. If we do not do this, we did negligence." "We say we want to export Islam, it does not mean that we get on a plane and conquest other countries. Neither we can do nor we said such a thing. But what we can do is that, with the devices we have, with the radio and television, with the press, with the groups that go abroad, with these introduce Islam as it is, as God Almighty has said, as it is in our narrations and in the Qur'an, present Islam to the people and present it to the world, and that in itself can be more effective than thousands of cannons and tanks."

Some interesting thoughts here, and it is good you are thinking at this level, although I don't know if I see the world in the same dichotomies. I would divide the world more into the Global North (including Australia and New Zealand) and Global South (including Russia and the other BRICS countries.) We both live in "the North" and I think we would both like to see our countries do well economically. I think supporting Israel is now a loosing situation for the North, at least the USA, Great Britain, Germany, and even Australia. (It was probably always a lose/lose situation for us, expending so much political clout and money on Zionism) I think Israel is going to implode and fall apart - the train wreck of it's political apparatus is inevitably going to have to attack Iran, and when Iran counter attacks, the country will start coming apart at the seams. For the sake of all the people living there now, I hope a peace can be negotiated sooner, rather than later, but that peace is going to have to contain some major, major, major concessions for Israel, if it is to continue to exist at all. If a peace could be negotiated today, it would be much better for Israel, but the crazies in charge right now are not going to be persuaded and instead are going to incite war with Iran. This is not wishful thinking on my part, this is Realpolitik. (See this thread: The end of the state of Israel (1947 - 202?)
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...el--1947-202--) My wishful thinking is that the starvation in Gaza would now end - but I really don't know when that is going to happen. The more people that die, the more disgusted the world will be with Israel, which will make it worse for them when their day of reckoning finally happens (Bill's prediction 2027, which seems about right to me too.)

Regardless of lesser conflicts of land ownership - no country is guiltless – it is wealth and strategic global politics in this hot topic that is largely ignored by those championing Hamas, aka the Muslim Brotherhood

I am sorry to disappoint you Gemma, but when Israel falls, it isn't the Hamas boogeyman that is coming to town, it is Fatah. Fatah is the only party in the West Bank and it was once the only party in Gaza, but Netanyahu sabotaged them while allowing money to flow into Hamas, because Hamas looked more like the boogeyman the Likud wanted to portray. If you are in Gaza now and join Hamas, it is because the IDF is murdering your family, and not because you are some Moslem fundamentalist. When the war ends and Gazans come out of their foxholes, they are going to say "Thank you Hamas for your war efforts" but look to Fatah for political leadership. Fatah will also be the choice for almost everyone in the West Bank, but more importantly, it is already the choice for the 147 countries that recognize Palestine as a state, and Mahmoud Abbas (now 89 years young) will be the leader.

There isn't any valid argument to claim Hamas did not deliberately and provocatively incite Israel to go to war with them on Oct 7

Gemma, I am sorry, but you are completely clueless. Israeli history is one big human rights atrocity after another. In the two decades before October 7th, Israel has been carving up the West Bank into smaller and smaller pieces, building walls everywhere and have made it virtually impossible for Palestinians to travel around and visit their relatives. They have been forcing Palestinians out of their homes that have owned for centuries and turning the properties to people from Brooklyn. The have been building illegal settlements and moving crazy fundamentalist Jews on to the property and telling encouraging them to be violent toward the Palestinians. The settlers burn down buildings, cut down olive trees, show up at churches with guns, and the police never do anything about it. But if an eleven year old Palestinian throws a rock at an IDF tank, they will go to prison and not see a lawyer or their parents for a year and will probably get raped in prison. International organizations that have presented credible evidence of children being raped in prison have had their offices raided and closed and their officers imprisoned.

Before October 7th Gaza was an open air prison. Gazans have tried to develop their area and build a port and Israel has used every effort to prevent them from doing so. Israel constantly turns off electricity and restrict water usage in both Gaza and the West Bank. Israel has made every effort to keep the area in poverty and have restricted aid from coming into the region.

I could go on and on and on, but there are plenty of places you can learn about what a disgusting shïtshow Israel has created for Palestinians. Your idea that both sides are equally guilty is utterly absurd. October 7th was an inevitability that was caused by Israel.

In a critique of the mess the West’s globalists are responsible for, Michael T. Flynn LTG USA (RET) has this to say: Part of this global imbalance stems from ignoring Islam’s role and influence in shaping societies, leaving nations unprepared to address both internal and external challenges.

I think Mr. Flynn has gotten it backwards, it is UK and US government policies that have shaped nations, peoples and religions. Up until the 1940s, the Islamic world was inching towards modernity at the same rate of Latin Americans in conservative Catholic countries. Then in 1948 they witnessed the Nakba - the disgusting expulsion of 1.5 million Arabs Israel. They saw the CIA overthrow the Mosaddegh
government in Iran and see the UK turn control over most of the Arabian peninsula to the repressive Wahhabist House of Saud instead of the Hashemites. Most Arabs were right to feel that they were being abused by the West, and the less intelligent ones started to turn to more fundamentalist versions of Islam.

If you really want to understand the connection between politics and fundamentalism (mostly Islamic fundamentalism, but also Christian fundamentalist in the West) there are two fantastic Adams Curtis documentaries about the: The Power of Nightmares and Bitter Lake. Both are excellent, complex, and quite insightful. I can't say they have any simple easy conclusions but are both very thought provoking.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jxBbw13Y3Gc

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1pn2z7zp1V0

Whether we like it or not, many of our countries are directly caught up in this battle of the giants and are suffering chaos and violence as weak governments buckle under their pressure. So, do we side with the East, or the West? Should we even be choosing a side now that these tyrants are riding neck-a-neck, waving socialist flags—one seriously, one faux? Or is there another option?

I think this runs even deeper than simple East/West or Global North/South dichotomies. Here is some speculation at the next level. I believe Israel is a plan long in coming, and it included not just it's creation but also it's demise. And more than just Israel is tied to it's demise. This plan is way above the pay grade of Schwab, Soros, the Bilderbergers, etc. although I imagine it informs the plans distributed to the Anglo Saxon Mission people.

Israel was never meant to be a safe homeland for Jewish people. Since the end of the Iron Curtain, it has been the major source of world conflict. It is (well, allegedly) the reason for 9/11 and all the Middle Eastern conflicts the U.S. and others have been involved with, in the lands of the most precious and necessary commodity, oil.

The fall of Israel will usher in a new age (along with A.I., possibly UFO disclosure, and other disclosure (Epstein, 9/11, JFK and other Assassinations)). All of this will very much shock human consciousness, destroy our faith in government and other institutions, and all of this will prepare us for the next phase. I have absolutely no idea what is in that next phase, but it should be reason for grave concern.

All I can say is, the more sanely, calmly and rationally humanity can get through all of this, the better the outcome is going to be.

[shaberon]

Posted by Kryztian (here)
I think this runs even deeper than simple East/West or Global North/South dichotomies. Here is some speculation at the next level. I believe Israel is a plan long in coming, and it included not just it's creation but also it's demise. And more than just Israel is tied to it's demise. This plan is way above the pay grade of Schwab, Soros, the Bilderbergers, etc. although I imagine it informs the plans distributed to the Anglo Saxon Mission people.

Israel was never meant to be a safe homeland for Jewish people. Since the end of the Iron Curtain, it has been the major source of world conflict. It is (well, allegedly) the reason for 9/11 and all the Middle Eastern conflicts the U.S. and others have been involved with, in the lands of the most precious and necessary commodity, oil.

The fall of Israel will usher in a new age...

Good replies and I, at least, can see more value in someone posting here maybe only once a week, especially since the art of forum ought to elicit more thoughtful replies than the fracas of chat room.


On this last subject, it's very simple:


Jesuitry


That is how you can find Ukraine in the 1600s as an extension of the Fourth Crusade -- to crush Orthodoxy -- plus the relatively new phenomenon of millions of displaced Jews who had been ousted from west Europe and Italy.

Rather than the "take over the world" mentality of the Conquistadors, this is more of a strategical shift to be the last man standing after a soul-wrenching era of violence.

A telltale sign is that there are Jesuits remaining in the murky One World Currency plan, whereas BRICS alternatives preserve sovereign currency. Note the similarity to the 1600s Peace of Westphalia, which was sort of a mental model about preserving nationality in the face of mono-polarity, and which also did not last long. Thus, the main tool of resistance is nationalism, not the fake kind like we have in America because this isn't a nation -- but the natural indigenous kind you might find in tiny European pockets such as Wales.

This one is easy, because nobody is going to turn to a Big Rome for salvation after whatever happens, but chances are they will still have their "hands on the equipment".


We won't get much use out of "general character" or three-sentence summaries. They are misleading and inaccurate for a complex, massive web of conflicts and oppression. Many of those topics would be a different thread subject. I have never, for instance, seen any attention spent on the actual historical and social situation of Jews in various regimes. It's really intricate. I am sure that in many of those situations, I would sympathize with the Jewish community versus their oppressors. But not all. And so it is not useful to go on about "the Jews" or "general character of Judaism" because it's not all the same.

Zionism is all the same, just a matter of degree. I did not get the news in 2004 that the United States had purged Israeli terrorists off the list; I got it this year. This legally empowered extremists to take office and now here we are. Greater Israel has been a backburner military doctrine for quite some time, and now it is running openly.

[Kryztian]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
This thread's topic (what's true and false about Israel and Zionism) has been derailed. Kryztian, who started the thread with a professional and well-thought-out presentation, last visited the thread 5 days ago. That should tell us all something.

Bill, you are not the first one to ask why I disappeared from the thread, but the real reason was that some of the points need a lengthy answer and I did not have the time to address them properly.

And for the record, I really did enjoy reading Gemma's post (#11 on this thread) and writing a rebuttal. I don't know if she and I are going to agree on anything here, but we are both got each other to think and are a bit smarter for what we wrote here.

And yet, the thread has gone way off topic. I hope this can be divided into two threads.

Chris

[Gemma13]

Posted by Kryztian (here)
[

Bill, you are not the first one to ask why I disappeared from the thread, but the real reason was that some of the points need a lengthy answer and I did not have the time to address them properly.

And for the record, I really did enjoy reading Gemma's post (#11 on this thread) and writing a rebuttal. I don't know if she and I are going to agree on anything here, but we are both got each other to think and are a bit smarter for what we wrote here.

And yet, the thread has gone way off topic. I hope this can be divided into two threads.

Chris

👍

Cue in Arnie... "I'll be back..."
Time constraints n all.

[Rizotto]

In a way, this thread has not been derailed. It was diverted exactly to where the Zionist propagandists want it to go.
In fact, it’s become illustrative of how Zionist propaganda works.

It should be obvious by now that Zionist propaganda revolves around portraying Muslims (especially Arab & Iranian Muslims) as dangerous fanatics whose main purpose in life is to destroy Israel & Jews, just because their religious beliefs tells them to.

For example, in post # 69 above by Rgray, the claim is made that:
“The general character of Islam is at the … very center of Oct 7th massacre of Jews and the Israeli destruction of GAZA.”

In fact, Hamas’ two requests for their October 7 operation had nothing to do with ‘Islam’. Hamas’ requests were: 1) that Israel releases Palestinian hostages held in Israeli prisons, many of them for years on end, and 2) that Israel ceases its illegal occupation and gets out of Palestinian lands.

For decades now, Israel has used the excuse of the ‘dangerous & violent Muslims’ as cover for its “Greater Israel” land grab agenda and control of the middle east. Israel endlessly portrays Muslims as terrorists, to justify systematically terrorizing & killing Muslims. This Israeli propaganda has been especially aimed at convincing the west, and Israel has used the October 7 event as a catalyst to whip up fear and revulsion of Muslims among westerners.

I can tell you that this vilification of Muslims is rife on many social media groups here in Canada. And these same groups also censor all posts on Israel’s horrific genocide of Palestinians.

Israel has whole teams of specialized trolls infiltrating social media and various forums around the world (maybe the PA forum too?...). They typically derail conversations critical of Israel/Zionism with insults, groundless accusations and irrelevant trash. The internet calls them “the Hasbara trolls”:
https://aninjusticemag.com/israels-o...y-9031bdbc6aff
“Israel’s On-line Army”

But here what’s really ironic. Israel itself has orchestrated several false flags, specifically to cast the perpetrators as Muslims. I’m listing below only those that I know of. There probably are many more.
- 1967 Unmarked Israeli fighter jets attack the USS Liberty in the Mediterranean, killing and injuring dozens of USA servicemen. They tried to blame Egypt for the attack, so that USA would start a war against Egypt.
- 1968 Assassination of Robert Kennedy. Blamed on “a Palestinian motivated by the hatred of Israel”. However, that Palestinian (Sirhan Sirhan) never was able to remember what happened during that event, and exhibited symptoms of MKULTRA conditioning. Evidence pointed to more than one shooter.
- See “Israel & The Assassinations of the Kennedy Brothers: A Documentary By Laurent Guyénot”
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a37FM542MXE
- The 9/11 attack was almost immediately blamed on Muslims by government & media. However, many subsequent citizens’ investigations disproved the official story, and pointed to Israel as the main orchestrator of the attack. (For example, “Solving 9/11” by Christopher Bollyn)
- There are official reports of numerous Israeli spies operating in the US just prior to the 9/11 attacks.
- The ‘dancing Israelis’ who were observed celebrating the 9/11 attack on the WTC: during their subsequent arrest by USA authorities, one of these Israelis (who later turned out to be Mossad agents) famously exclaimed: “We are Israeli; we are not your problem. Your problems are our problems, The Palestinians are the problem.”
- https://thewashingtonstandard.com/th...ement-of-9-11/
- The use, if not the creation itself, of ISIS for Israel’s agenda of weakening & controlling Syria. It’s well documented by now that Israel materially supported ISIS. And remember, ISIS never attacked Israel, only Syrians, Iraqis and Iranians.
- The October 7 attack by Hamas was deliberately allowed to happen by Israeli command. During the attack the IDF was ordered to stand down for hours on end, and many Israeli civilians were in fact killed by the IDF. Most horrific accusations of rapes & baby killing were made against Hamas, which turned out to be baseless. All of which to inflate sentiments against Palestinians, which Israel used to justify its long-planned takeover of Gaza and the West Bank.
- The June 13, 2025 Israel surprise attack against Iran, on the false pretext that Iran has nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, Israel itself has had rogue nukes for decades.

And then there’s the Jeffrey Epstein child trafficking operation, which was most certainly an Israeli blackmail operation to control powerful men into doing Israel’s bidding. Most likely the main reason those files are still covered up. My hunch is that the Epstein operation has a lot to do with Israel getting away with 9/11 and other false flags.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Kryztian (here)
...And yet, the thread has gone way off topic. I hope this can be divided into two threads.

Chris

Noted and discussed by the mods, and we'll do it. (Give us a day or two to try to get it right! )

[norman]

FICTION: The Jewish people are the Hebrews (of the Bible)
FACT: They are a completely different people who have quite recently shoe-horned themselves into the story and the role (and Satanic).

I wasn't expecting much from this podcast but it well over delivered. It leaves me still confused about who the Jews really are but very clear about who they are not. It also leaves me confused about who set up Mohammed to create Islam although it still leaves my previous understanding of why it was created intact.

UK Column, Jerm - William Finck - The biblical history of the Jews
1 hour 16 minutes - Sep 4, 2025

Show notes
Jerm and William Finck examine the history of Hebrews and Judaism, the role of Edomites, Khazars, and Ashkenazis, and the claims of modern Judaism to the promises made to Abraham.

Source: https://odysee.com/$/embed/@ukcolumn:9/William-Finck-The-biblical-history-of-the-Jews:5

Bonus Factoid: Jesus wasn't a Jew.

[Irminsül]

I agree with everything you stated about how Israel has for years been committing abuses, human rights violations, and abominable acts against the Palestinian people. But beyond the fact that a group of oppressed and systematically murdered people has every right to defend itself (as is supposed to be what happened on October 7, 2023); even that situation, many believe, was a false flag operation by Israel to give them the excuse to carry out the genocide they are perpetrating to this day. I am not saying this is an absolute truth, since in these cases it is often difficult to know the reality, but it would not surprise me at all if Israeli intelligence had planned that entire attack. We know that this kind of act has happened before. And numerous geopolitical analysts have pointed out that what happened on October 7 is yet another case of this.

[grapevine]

Posted by norman (here)
FICTION: The Jewish people are the Hebrews (of the Bible)
Bonus Factoid: Jesus wasn't a Jew.

I think Jesus was a Jew and all his followers were Jews as well. Early Christianity started within Judasim after all, and only later was considered to be separate. But you could make an argument that "considered" or "broad agreement" is a form of democracy and that not everybody will agree, except perhaps for the indisputable fact that we worship the same God.

[norman]

Posted by grapevine (here)

Posted by norman (here)
FICTION: The Jewish people are the Hebrews (of the Bible)
Bonus Factoid: Jesus wasn't a Jew.

I think Jesus was a Jew and all his followers were Jews as well. Early Christianity started within Judasim after all, and only later was considered to be separate. But you could make an argument that "considered" or "broad agreement" is a form of democracy and that not everybody will agree, except perhaps for the indisputable fact that we worship the same God.

Did you listen to anything William Fink said before you wrote that?

[grapevine]

No. That statement put me off listening.