The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

[Deneon]

Wow, I am still learning so much by reading this thread. Thank you all for your contributions. I just want to say a couple of things:

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
Ah! Watching the breath, you see I used to worry about the breath thinking that if I focused on the breath then I wouldn't be able to leave my body because the breath constantly reminds you that the body is there. That when relaxed, the only motion you feel is the chest rising up and down. So that seems a little counter intuitive to me.

I can really relate to this. In the book by Robert Bruce he recommends a technique called belly breathing, where you feel your chest (or belly, I suppose) move up and down with each breath you take. I also see this as focusing on your physical body, which automatically suggests to me that you will have lots of trouble getting out of it.

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
I’ll say more below relating to the importance of having great detachment. Let me pause to explain now, though, that detachment doesn’t really have anything to do with a lack of involvement. The greater a person’s detachment, the more intensely they are able to let themselves be involved and the more deeply they are able to care about others and about the situation.

You made the above statement in your 'The journey to discovering my true origins' thread. I struggled with this issue, and I still do. I try not to let some things get to me, but I don't want to get to a point where I don't care about it. I know the goal is not to not care about anything. I don't want to get mad at something or someone, but I don't want to have a 'nothing matters to me' attitude. I don't want to say 'I don't give a ****'. It's difficult to put into words what I mean exactly (English isn't my first language). I sometimes find it difficult to balance. This is going a lot better lately. I have no idea if any of this makes sense, or if this is even what you meant when you wrote that. When I read it I just thought that was exactly what I have been struggling with.

Something that is related to this but slightly different: I don't (want to) argue with people anymore. Almost any topic other people want to argue about are insignificant in the great scheme of things. But, I don't want people to walk over me of take advantage of me, just because (in their view) I do not want to argue. I guess you have to balance it, like everything else. I tend to polarize everything (everything or nothing, no gray areas), which makes balancing things a bit hard...

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
This is so easy, but it explains a few puzzles, at least for me. One puzzle has been that my experience of the vibrations hasn’t been as a gate to astral travel, except on rare occasions. Instead, in some periods of my life it’s been a recharge of my body when I hadn’t had enough sleep.

The night before last I did not get any sleep. Not by choice, but because of some exercises I did that night, my body felt very energized, almost electrified, that I just couldn't get any sleep. I have written about this before. Anyway, I wasn't tired at all the next day, which I found.. interesting.

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
Everyone should learn to really master their energy body and the energy flows within it. It’s not optional. Why? Because the way the ego keeps anyone trapped and limited is through various complexes of emotions. And those emotions work through energy flows and energy structures in you.
Also, everyone should do it because this is one step towards reclaiming the greater powers we were meant to have naturally.

This is exactly what I have been doing. I haven't really been focusing on going OBE right now, but more on feeling and developing and my energy body. Also I am trying to meditate regularly, something that I had never done until a few weeks ago. I find I can sometimes really quickly feel energy flow through me, while at other times I just feel it in my hands and legs. The last couple of days I have been feeling energy in my head. I can feel it very strongly, even when I'm not mediating. Throughout my day at work when I focus on the energies and just unfocus my eyes a little I feel them very strongly. I do this all day long just for fun, because I like how it feels

I seem to be feeling it more easily at work. This is a very stressful time at work. A lot of my colleagues are worrying about our future, because they are closing my branch at the end of this year. At one point I felt this giant wave of energy in me, without trying anything. That's when I started to wonder: Am I feeling my own energy body, or am I picking up other people's energies? And how do I differentiate between the two?

Also I've been very surprised at how many people I know have had experiences like this. I asked someone flat out if he had ever had an OBE (because he has some spiritual beliefs) and he flat out told me he did. He described it in detail, vibrations and everything. Someone else told me she has been seeing and feeling things forever. She also told me she felt the moment we met (2 years ago) that I was sensitive to these things as well. She was quite amused saying to herself 'Oh he doesn't know yet'. Of course, this is easy for her to say after I have told her about everything, but still

I have one question: What do I do now? I am going to keep meditating, keep feeling my energy body. Should I read about healing? Keep trying OBE? Reading other people's energies? Train other psychic abilities?

I probably know there is no next logical step, but I want to focus on something specific instead of just trying anything without a clear goal in mind. I would welcome any advice.

[Libico]

I’ve been out of the loop on this thread for the past 2 weeks or so due to personal issues and thought I’d chime in with a few comments and questions.

Ever since my previous post where I talked about a dream experience that lead to my lucidity which lead to an experience (I’m still not sure how to term this – I’ve had a few OBEs that originated from my waking state and it seems very similar, but yet not the same so possibly taking place in 5D), I’ve been having much more vivid dreams. I’ve found that I start to unconsciously live out scenarios in my dreams that have happened in the past in my life, or that I’ve always dreaded – in these cases I live out these scenarios and am happy to report that I face these situations in a way that would be the ‘ideal” way I could act. We’ve all had situations both significant and insignificant where we wish we had acted differently - with me it happens with giving money to someone asking where my first/automatic reaction is to refuse and I instantly regret it… I’ve had a few times recently where I’ve even backtracked a bit to correct myself and felt happy over the fact that I could stop and correct myself instead of letting myself go with “next time I’ll do it”. In these dream states I found I was more comfortably able to explore these scenarios and correct past scenarios and ones which I always dreaded would happen. It’s been quite liberating.

I’d like to share an experience I had last night as well; after playing out a scenario in which I took a highly regarded colleague and close friend for granted which in turn caused everyone to ostracize me – I took the defensive stance momentarily until I went and wholeheartedly apologized by acknowledging the error of my ways granting me closure and lucidity. I immediately requested to go OBE, felt strong vibrations for several seconds while everything faded to black. I can’t recall many of the details of this, but one interesting note was that right after I received lucidity (prior to going OBE) I felt “attacked” by the sharp pains in my back, and also felt the manifestation of the visual entity I’ve always associated with that (page 12, post #238 in this thread). As I went OBE I decided to ask my HS two questions:

1. What is the source of these pains and how can I stop them from recurring – what is this entity that has been attacking me for all these years? TH mentioned in an earlier post that it was likely due to cording which I intuitively believe to be true (indeed I’ve have much more control over them since that revelation), but my mind still associates it with this entity.

2. I don’t feel like I am progressing as well as I would like – what can I do to advance myself spiritually at a faster pace?

In this experience I ran a gauntlet being faced with tests of various sorts along the way; both moral and philosophical – I can’t recall any specifics at the moment but I remember thoroughly enjoying the experience. Eventually I reached the conclusion which was a sort of computer terminal which I knew to be a connection to my HS who could answer my questions. I only received an answer to my first question (although thinking now it could be an answer to both), and the answer was something like this “It is not for me to know now – it would be terribly dangerous for me to know at this stage”. I woke up pondering over this answer and it’s been with my all day. I believe the message was telling me that at this point in time I’ve not yet reached a level of spiritual maturity to “open that door” and truly get to the bottom of this – I don’t believe the message was a warning, but more a message to let it lie for now and focus on my advancement as this is something to be tackled later.

It was a very interesting experience – lately I’ve had OBEs exclusively originating from lucid dream sequences and not originating from the waking state.

One thing I’d like to ask for some advice on is beginning to meditate. I’ve always had difficulty with this and have read and tried out many techniques with nothing ever really seeming to work for me. The only time I’ve ever felt anything aside from seeing blackness and with my thoughts running amok has been during the exercise that TH organized – I had a few minutes of feeling waves of light in the sea of darkness and it was exhilarating. More and more I have the feeling that meditating is an important stepping stone in my advancement and I thought I’d ask here for some advice with this. My main issue is that I can’t turn off or let go of my mind no matter what I seem to try.

Thanks for the link to the PDF that Raf posted tetradactyl – I glanced through the TOC and it looks great! Bookmarked for later

[TraineeHuman]

One thing I'd like to say in response to Deneon and Libico is that obviously with both of you and probably everyone who has posted on this thread, your "soul" has a strong commitment to development, and because of that you don't really need to worry. I would see "the soul" as mostly the 7D and 6D parts of a person. But anyway, it's higher -- deeper inside --than all your conditioning and emotions and mental blocks, whatever they might be, as these are 4D and 5D. The mere fact that the "soul" has broken through these into your attention is enough. It can't be stopped. It's like a "call" that you've heard and now you know you've heard it. It links you to higher kinds of true intelligence inside you.

I'll make some comments in response to Libico's and Deneon's posts shortly. But here's something I once wrote about how to meditate.

All forms of meditation take everything away except you. They’re kind of like a scientific experiment, in that sense. However, meditation isn’t dry or mechanical, either.

You really will get more out of every time you meditate if you understand what meditation is about is:
just you watching you.

And when I say “you,” I mean you at your most natural. Just “pure” you. A state with no problems. The “I” behind the “me.”

There’s a strange and fascinating twist, though. Meditation, of any form, is designed in such a way that all the while you keep letting go of all memory of what you were looking at, even one second ago. You keep watching and forgetting. But the watching – the alertness – is vital. So, equally, is the letting go and instant forgetting. Any time you manage to do both of these together: “You’ve got it!” as Henry Higgins might say.

You’ll notice there’s something amazingly loose and easy about that forgetting. It really is in many ways the opposite of keeping yourself on a tight leash. OK, you do it while (probably) sitting quietly, and just paying attention. But inside of you, you completely let yourself run wild. At least, in whatever sense it’s possible to “run wild” when you’re every second dropping and forgetting all thought or emotion.

J. Krishnamurti said ultimately much the same thing in a different way. He said that true meditation does not rigidly follow a path, a discipline, or a method set down by others. Also, that it must not involve discipline, effort, or force. So, forget about trying to do it the “right” way. The more you’ve forgotten everything like that, during meditation, while still being very wide awake and present, the deeper you’ve gone.

Common mistakes

The biggest mistake I have seen in “experienced” meditators is that some of them become experienced in using “meditation” to make themselves duller. We have seen that in meditation one of the major instructions is to not hang on to any thoughts (or memories). But that doesn’t mean shutting down the flow of your natural life-energy and consciousness. Incidentally, your life-energy and consciousness are one and the same as your sexual energy and consciousness – except that in meditation they operate at a subtler and finer and gentler level. So your body doesn’t get sexually aroused. On the other hand, in meditation you do get more and more in contact with the energy and consciousness of genuine love and of gentleness and sensitivity.

The second biggest mistake is a fear or unwillingness to let go; a desire to control what’s going on. You simply drop that.

The other point I must make is that it’s important to make use of the benefits of meditation. Meditation is only useful to you to the extent that it makes you more intelligent, in the true sense of “intelligence.” Yes, it does greatly lessen the intensity of any pain or hurt or fear you have been aware of that day. But you also need to use the greater positivity you gain from meditation to face all the painful things – the things that press your buttons – head-on. That’s something that needs to be done outside of the meditation session. During an actual meditation session, the aim is to completely “switch off” from those painful things. To return to your origin, your source, that was there before the world ever was. No problems.

I should add, though, that there is a constant flow of (for these purposes) rubbish thoughts that doesn't stop. You kind of just learn to turn the volume down with regard to these, or even to ignore them fully.

One further point. If you want to become a professional tennis player, you need to practise, practise, and then practise. Where I’ve said above that discipline and effort aren’t relevant, please don’t jump to the conclusion that you can miss out on daily practice.

Watching the breath

Each form of meditation gives you some instruction to follow. Usually, that instruction is given to you with the understanding that it’s merely a boat to get you across “the river” of your pain-body’s resistance. And that once you get to the “other side of the river,” you don’t need the boat.

In meditation based on watching the breath, that “boat” is the action of watching your breath in a certain way, normally accompanied by something that’s a reminder to let go. To let go of everything, and just allow everything to be exactly as it is. In my experience, for many people watching the breath seems to be the quickest way to learn how to meditate. I have also found that when they learn this method, people don’t seem to veer off into spaces which they will then need to get through before they seem to reach the destination.

Some people learn how to do this form of meditation properly within days, and quite a few within weeks of daily practise. You know when you’ve started really reaching the right place with a vengeance when you start encountering intense joy or love. Soon after, you’ll find that in addition you’ll reach a space of very pleasant peace. You could call that “presence” if you like, because it’s so satisfying and fulfilling, it sure isn’t “nothing”. I guess it’s no-thing, i.e., it’s formless.

Watching the breath – the exercise

Find a quiet place where you won’t be disturbed. It should be indoors, or at least have walls on all sides around you.
Sit in a chair, or at least with your back straight and each arm resting on your upper legs. Very gently close your eyelids.
Pay attention to your breathing. Breathe from your abdomen.

Whenever your body starts to breathe in, silently say “Peace” (or: “Let it be”) to yourself. When it starts to breathe out – and not before --, silently say the same. As you do so, be aware of having the attitude that you’re ever so gently letting go of whatever thoughts come up in your mind.
Keep doing this until you no longer notice your mind silently “speaking” thoughts. At that point, stop saying “Peace” (or “Let it be”).

But if you start to notice any thoughts again, go back to saying “Peace” (or “Let it be”) with each inbreath and outbreath, until they disappear.

When you’re finished, give yourself SEVERAL MINUTES to come out of that trance-like state slowly. Begin by wiggling all your fingers and toes, with the eyes still shut.
When you are ready, open the eyes, but still keep wiggling. Gradually make your body movements bigger. Begin to move your wrists, then your lower arms, and your ankles, then lower legs. As you do, let your eyes and your intuition “register” everything around you, “feeling” its solidity almost as if you were touching it.
Without moving your behind, stretch your arms and legs, and swing them about a little. Finally, move your entire body about, including lifting your behind off the chair.

Warning: At first, don’t combine watching the breath with feeling the aliveness. Equally, it’s OK to practise feeling the aliveness outdoors, but not watching the breath. The reasons are “technical”. I’m certainly not the only practitioner who warns strictly against doing certain forms of meditation outdoors. Most types of traditional movement meditation, such as t’ai chi, qi gong, and hatha yoga are fine. So is feeling the aliveness, and being at one with Nature.

Other forms of meditation

The other forms of meditation generally substitute something else for watching the breath. This can be a mantra, for example (a word or phrase like “Om” or “peace”). In most cases, it is something that you keep repeating – until you get to a space where you stop paying so much attention to your thoughts. The great thing about the watching-the-breath meditation is as follows. Firstly, all the other forms of meditation also require you to keep “letting everything be exactly as it is,” or to keep letting go of thoughts and feelings. Secondly, we are already aware of our breathing all the time anyway. So, watching-the breath meditation is the form that requires the most minimal effort.
You’re doing meditation of any kind the ideal way once it starts being “one” with you, or kind of “taking you over.” For instance, if you are doing a movement form of meditation such as t’ai chi, it’s when the energy of the exercises seems to be moving you rather than you. Or when everything physically around you seems to be saying the mantra, if you are doing a mantra meditation. It feels like everything seems to be saying the mantra because you have entered a space of sufficient unity that for you, everything has become the same. And so on.


Creative visualization and affirmations

Some people use the word “meditation” to refer to creative visualization – or self-hypnosis, or self-reprogramming. Certainly, this has considerable similarity to meditation. It can be used to lessen the power your ego has over you. And surely, that’s not a bad thing. Nevertheless, creative visualization needs to be done twice a week in order to work. And I claim it does fail to actually remove any of the ego.

The procedure is very similar to that for the watching-the–breath meditation as described above. Indeed, you can follow exactly the same procedure as above and go into meditation for several minutes. At that point, you can visualize yourself being successful or very likeable or whatever it is that you are seeking. You can do so by using your imagination to run a brief “film” in your mind picturing yourself being successful/ etc. If you aren’t able to run such a “film,” it helps to picture a scene of a naturally beautiful spot. You then repeat one or several phrases about yourself, in the present tense, saying that you have already achieved that goal. E.g.: “At my job interview I am calm, confident and make a strong connection with every member of the panel.”

After doing this for a few minutes, you can either return to meditation or else slowly come out of the session as you do when coming out of a meditation session.


Remember

If you’re a beginner at meditation, it can take days or weeks or much, much longer before you start accessing any bliss or oneness, even one drop of these. But that’s not a reason to give up practicing every day. Personally, I don’t miss a day because almost every time I meditate I get to drink in some ecstatic pure love and peace. If you keep at it, those sorts of wonderful experiences do happen for many people.

[Chester]

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
Is it possible that a 'Guru' with no power, can obtain power simply from his followers belief that he has supernatural powers?

That what starts out as a bluff can then turn into reality?

The expression 'fake it till you make it' comes to mind...

And in this way, a false religion could be started, and that a Demon could obtain God-like powers from the belief of his followers that he is the 'true' God?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that we should all get together on this thread, and 'intend' something cool into existence.
I've suggested stuff like this before, but nobody takes the idea up.

So what do you say? What shall we create?

* Note * We should think of something unusual and unique to lessen the chances of some other group 'un-intending' our intentions, something observable world wide, and easy to start off with. Any suggestions?

For me, when I have done this, it has always backfired.

What I discovered true for me was that no matter how virtuous my intentions or well meaning my energetic thrust... when I cast my will such as a magician (white or black), the boomerang is never what I expected and almost always has been an negative surprise. That is why I set aside intentional magic over 12 years ago.

And make sure you don't conclude I am against intentional magic - not at all... I am simply stating that I am not good at coming up with the right/best intentions. This is one of the reasons I think I am essentially a psychopath that simply made up his mind to be in right/positive relationship with all and the All.

I have found it far better (for me) to rely on the will of the kosmos. I call this type of magic, "clear magic" as it is essentially a combination of the desire of my deepest heart and the higher will that seems to invisibly guide us through these strange, dis-empowered shadow realms.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by justoneman (here)

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
Is it possible that a 'Guru' with no power, can obtain power simply from his followers belief that he has supernatural powers?

That what starts out as a bluff can then turn into reality?

The expression 'fake it till you make it' comes to mind...

And in this way, a false religion could be started, and that a Demon could obtain God-like powers from the belief of his followers that he is the 'true' God?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that we should all get together on this thread, and 'intend' something cool into existence.
I've suggested stuff like this before, but nobody takes the idea up.

So what do you say? What shall we create?

* Note * We should think of something unusual and unique to lessen the chances of some other group 'un-intending' our intentions, something observable world wide, and easy to start off with. Any suggestions?

For me, when I have done this, it has always backfired. What I discovered true for me was that no matter how virtuous my intentions or well meaning my energetic thrust... when I cast my will such as a magician (white or black), boomerang is never what I expected and almost always has been an negative surprise. That is why i set aside intentional magic over 12 years ago.

I have found it far better to rely on the will of the kosmos. I call this type of magic, "clear magic" as it is essentially a combination of the desire of my deepest heart and the higher will that seems to invisibly guide us through these strange, dis-empowered shadow realms.

Hi Chester,
I agree that it's very important to leave many details up to "the will of the kosmos". That was why I suggested people might send healing energy rather than just send intention; and I suggested they didn't need to be specific about what journalist(s) to send it to, but just intend it for those journalists -- whoever they may be -- with the realistic opportunity to disclose something crucial to the mainstream public. I agree we should let a higher intelligence flow through us. Ideally we should just be "vessels" (I dare not use the word "channels" because it's been so ridiculously used by many phoneys). I've also explained that the Law of Attraction doesn't work unless various other laws are followed -- many of which amount to the requirement that the intention has to be for the highest good of all involved, or of all humanity or all the planet. I've also explained a little about how intentions, being 6D, are subservient to everything in higher Ds.

By the way, as a qualified psychologist I don't believe there are such things as "psychopaths", only psychopathic behavior -- which anyone is capable of doing, and does, at times. I do know that there exist malevolent Gods, but they have volunteered to play the black role for a while and then at a certain time "retire" from being malevolent. The game was set up from the beginning so that the benevolent Gods (all of whom are or were human, by the way) would win the struggle completely in the long run. I'm very sad for you that you got caught up into direct slavery to the malevolents. But at a deeper "soul" level you agreed in advance to do this, and in the long run -- maybe future lifetimes but hopefully in this one as well -- your recovery from that destruction of yourself will make you awfully strong. And please, don't run yourself down. Like yourself. You seem quite likeable to me. None of us is perfect.

Regards, TH

[Chester]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)

Posted by justoneman (here)

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
Is it possible that a 'Guru' with no power, can obtain power simply from his followers belief that he has supernatural powers?

That what starts out as a bluff can then turn into reality?

The expression 'fake it till you make it' comes to mind...

And in this way, a false religion could be started, and that a Demon could obtain God-like powers from the belief of his followers that he is the 'true' God?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that we should all get together on this thread, and 'intend' something cool into existence.
I've suggested stuff like this before, but nobody takes the idea up.

So what do you say? What shall we create?

* Note * We should think of something unusual and unique to lessen the chances of some other group 'un-intending' our intentions, something observable world wide, and easy to start off with. Any suggestions?

For me, when I have done this, it has always backfired. What I discovered true for me was that no matter how virtuous my intentions or well meaning my energetic thrust... when I cast my will such as a magician (white or black), boomerang is never what I expected and almost always has been an negative surprise. That is why i set aside intentional magic over 12 years ago.

I have found it far better to rely on the will of the kosmos. I call this type of magic, "clear magic" as it is essentially a combination of the desire of my deepest heart and the higher will that seems to invisibly guide us through these strange, dis-empowered shadow realms.

Hi Chester,
I agree that it's very important to leave many details up to "the will of the kosmos". That was why I suggested people might send healing energy rather than just send intention; and I suggested they didn't need to be specific about what journalist(s) to send it to, but just intend it for those journalists -- whoever they may be -- with the realistic opportunity to disclose something crucial to the mainstream public. I agree we should let a higher intelligence flow through us. Ideally we should just be "vessels" (I dare not use the word "channels" because it's been so ridiculously used by many phoneys). I've also explained that the Law of Attraction doesn't work unless various other laws are followed -- many of which amount to the requirement that the intention has to be for the highest good of all involved, or of all humanity or all the planet. I've also explained a little about how intentions, being 6D, are subservient to everything in higher Ds.

By the way, as a qualified psychologist I don't believe there are such things as "psychopaths", only psychopathic behavior -- which anyone is capable of doing, and does, at times. I do know that there exist malevolent Gods, but they have volunteered to play the black role for a while and then at a certain time "retire" from being malevolent. The game was set up from the beginning so that the benevolent Gods (all of whom are or were human, by the way) would win the struggle completely in the long run. I'm very sad for you that you got caught up into direct slavery to the malevolents. But at a deeper "soul" level you agreed in advance to do this, and in the long run -- maybe future lifetimes but hopefully in this one as well -- your recovery from that destruction of yourself will make you awfully strong. And please, don't run yourself down. Like yourself. You seem quite likeable to me. None of us is perfect.

Regards, TH

Thanks TH - I am sadly one of those people that has to learn everything on my own. I am 55 and I am just now starting to get what you are saying in your last post. But it seems true (at least for me) that these laws seem to require an adherence to them all for everything to click smoothly. But, I have been finding out lately through some of the most difficult times, by having faith in these laws and then letting things unfold naturally allows me to experience what used to seem like the miraculous and now seems to be only and simply - basic metaphysics.

I love you lots, man... and also AwakeInADream too because he really seems to be working real hard on all these things and I admire that dedication. Also, forgive me I am not stating more names, but you have attracted several awesome posters here and I have been really enjoying the posts, the dialogue and the general great feeling of this thread.

I think the Mods should consider to make this thread a Sticky.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Deneon (here)

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
I’ll say more below relating to the importance of having great detachment. Let me pause to explain now, though, that detachment doesn’t really have anything to do with a lack of involvement. The greater a person’s detachment, the more intensely they are able to let themselves be involved and the more deeply they are able to care about others and about the situation.

You made the above statement in your 'The journey to discovering my true origins' thread. I struggled with this issue, and I still do. I try not to let some things get to me, but I don't want to get to a point where I don't care about it. I know the goal is not to not care about anything. I don't want to get mad at something or someone, but I don't want to have a 'nothing matters to me' attitude. I don't want to say 'I don't give a ****'. It's difficult to put into words what I mean exactly (English isn't my first language). I sometimes find it difficult to balance. This is going a lot better lately. I have no idea if any of this makes sense, or if this is even what you meant when you wrote that. When I read it I just thought that was exactly what I have been struggling with.

If that's exactly what you're struggling with, Deneon, then you certainly must be doing quite a few things right. Impressive!

Something that is related to this but slightly different: I don't (want to) argue with people anymore. Almost any topic other people want to argue about are insignificant in the great scheme of things. But, I don't want people to walk over me of take advantage of me, just because (in their view) I do not want to argue. I guess you have to balance it, like everything else. I tend to polarize everything (everything or nothing, no gray areas), which makes balancing things a bit hard...

One problem relating to detachment is that, like proper meditation, it's a lost art in this culture and society. Today I find most people don't appreciate that being detached doesn't mean or imply a lack of commitment or even a lack of involvement, at all. I find that many people from indigenous cultures and traditional Asian cultures seem to look up to anyone who has some detachment, because their culture has included an understanding of its great value. But not modern Western culture. If someone wants to take advantage of you, you may have to put on a small "tough guy" act for their benefit. Many people who make much progress in developing their awareness need to deliberately mask the smiles their face will naturally make. That's because there are others who will believe they're free to take advantage because you'll be too generous to insist on your rights.

... I am trying to meditate regularly, something that I had never done until a few weeks ago. I find I can sometimes really quickly feel energy flow through me, while at other times I just feel it in my hands and legs. The last couple of days I have been feeling energy in my head. I can feel it very strongly, even when I'm not meditating. Throughout my day at work when I focus on the energies and just unfocus my eyes a little I feel them very strongly. I do this all day long just for fun, because I like how it feels

I seem to be feeling it more easily at work. This is a very stressful time at work. A lot of my colleagues are worrying about our future, because they are closing my branch at the end of this year. At one point I felt this giant wave of energy in me, without trying anything. That's when I started to wonder: Am I feeling my own energy body, or am I picking up other people's energies? And how do I differentiate between the two?

Yes, you are undoubtedly picking up other people's energies at work. No, you shouldn't meditate at work, not in most senses of "meditate", for that very reason.
How do you distinguish between their energies and yours? Often -- usually -- you simply can't.

I have one question: What do I do now? I am going to keep meditating, keep feeling my energy body. Should I read about healing? Keep trying OBE? Reading other people's energies? Train other psychic abilities?

I probably know there is no next logical step, but I want to focus on something specific instead of just trying anything without a clear goal in mind. I would welcome any advice.

Deneon, you would be surprised how often I see people interested in personal growth looking to be told what to do. Yes, it’s very uncomfortable not to know what to do next. But spiritual or psychological growth comes partly through facing and getting through what’s uncomfortable, until what used to be so uncomfortable doesn’t get to you any more.

Have you tried the exercise in post #24, where you can ask your HS for guidance? I guess I’m saying to ask your deeper self. Its guidance is unsurpassable, if you can learn to listen to it and to stop stopping yourself from understanding it.

Yes, I consider that continuing to learn to meditate well would be a 100% great project for you at present. Let’s not forget, though, what the end goal of meditation might be. The Buddha said there were a few different forms of unhappiness: attachment, ignorance, boredom, negative emotions, and (I think he said) desire. If meditation is pursued properly and sanely and frequently and long enough, then in combination with psychotherapy or with self-enquiry and self-psychotherapy it will eventually free you from unhappiness (except for physical pain or some physical problems). I happen to know this for a fact. There are lesser but very important benefits along the way.

When a person begins to learn meditation, they may need to take it on faith for, say, months before they begin to see how it’s beneficial. But it sounds like that doesn’t apply to you. There are many traps. For instance, some people can slip into escapism, or into using so-called meditation to dull themselves. Or, because faith is usually needed at the start, so many meditators turn it all into a kind of religious faith. The rigidity of their fixed opinions of how “superior” or self-righteous they’ve become feels painful to me and is so sad to see. Some people become “professional meditators”, and get taken over by a monk-like or nun-like identity of their own creation (or maybe from a past lifetime), and kind of divorce themselves from getting their hands dirty in the wicked world out there. Sorry to hit you with all the above negatives, but there are plenty of positives in my recent post on how to meditate.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Libico (here)
... I’ve found that I start to unconsciously live out scenarios in my dreams that have happened in the past in my life, or that I’ve always dreaded – in these cases I live out these scenarios and am happy to report that I face these situations in a way that would be the ‘ideal” way I could act. We’ve all had situations both significant and insignificant where we wish we had acted differently - with me it happens with giving money to someone asking where my first/automatic reaction is to refuse and I instantly regret it… I’ve had a few times recently where I’ve even backtracked a bit to correct myself and felt happy over the fact that I could stop and correct myself instead of letting myself go with “next time I’ll do it”. In these dream states I found I was more comfortably able to explore these scenarios and correct past scenarios and ones which I always dreaded would happen. It’s been quite liberating. ...

I love those replays of memories that come up spontaneously. They’re always from a different point of view than how you had seen things up till then. And that new viewpoint is always closer to the truth of what really happened. I don’t normally experience the replays in dreams, but while I’m awake, almost any time – but I need to take ten minutes to be alone doing nothing for the full replay to run in my mind.

I gladly welcome such replays, because it means some of my past hurts have been released. Often I hadn’t remembered them before because they were too painful at the time of their occurrence.

So, any time you get such a replay, Libico, it means you’ve made a breakthrough at some psychological level, and some major viewpoint that used to be part of “your personality” has shifted. The breakthrough may seem so soft and wispy it doesn’t feel like a breakthrough. But that’s because points of view, being 7D,are extremely subtle but very much dominant over our 4D emotions.
"Quite liberating"? For me it's always very liberating -- subtle but powerful.

I don't feel like I am progressing as well as I would like – what can I do to advance myself spiritually at a faster pace?

Wow! You have such high standards for yourself that you consider you have to live by no matter what. Certainly it's possible to make big progress through the sheer force of a very strong will, which you obviously do have. There are other ways to do it. They are more to do with allowing what is inside you (the treasures, not the miserables) to flow more freely. I hope I'm not overdoing the words "flow" or "let go", but they are so key.

In this experience I ran a gauntlet being faced with tests of various sorts along the way; both moral and philosophical – I can’t recall any specifics at the moment but I remember thoroughly enjoying the experience. ...

That was a formal initiation of some kind. The fact that you enjoyed it means you passed with flying colors. Congratulations. Such an initiation always means you are from now on getting extra help from and access to some group of (fully) benevolent beings not from 3D.

More and more I have the feeling that meditating is an important stepping stone in my advancement and I thought I’d ask here for some advice with this. My main issue is that I can’t turn off or let go of my mind no matter what I seem to try.

You don't actually turn off "your mind", you just gradually learn to tune it out, and eventually ignore it. It's something you gradually learn to do. At the risk of bringing in some "mind stuff", let me mention that the Buddha's advice was as follows. In all meditation you have to learn to practice just letting absolutely everything be exactly as it is. No judgments, no standards, no attempt to control. But maybe if you try the watching-the-breath practice, you can make it even simpler and just let the rhythm of your breathing take over control. Then later maybe you can add practising letting everything be just as it is.

[Libico]

Posted by Deneon (here)
You made the above statement in your 'The journey to discovering my true origins' thread. I struggled with this issue, and I still do. I try not to let some things get to me, but I don't want to get to a point where I don't care about it. I know the goal is not to not care about anything. I don't want to get mad at something or someone, but I don't want to have a 'nothing matters to me' attitude. I don't want to say 'I don't give a ****'. It's difficult to put into words what I mean exactly (English isn't my first language). I sometimes find it difficult to balance. This is going a lot better lately. I have no idea if any of this makes sense, or if this is even what you meant when you wrote that. When I read it I just thought that was exactly what I have been struggling with.

Something that is related to this but slightly different: I don't (want to) argue with people anymore. Almost any topic other people want to argue about are insignificant in the great scheme of things. But, I don't want people to walk over me of take advantage of me, just because (in their view) I do not want to argue. I guess you have to balance it, like everything else. I tend to polarize everything (everything or nothing, no gray areas), which makes balancing things a bit hard...

Deneon - I've struggled with this very thing with the way I regard most things in my life. Once I started exploring spirituality it is difficult not to become overwhelmed as suddenly most things seemed insignificant and unimportant. I know at times I can appear to be indifferent to events that happen around me, but I feel like it is more difficult to get emotionally invested in confrontations, like you say. It's a battle with my Ego to just let things go and it's a process. One thing I've come to terms with is that although I am immensely interested in exploring OBE and reaching higher Ds, I did agree to come back to 3D this time so I still need to put enough focus on this life and not go live in a cave in seclusion (as tempting as that may be sometimes!).

Thanks for your insights TH - I am trying to be patient and let things come naturally as they may, but for me it is very difficult for me to accept that way of thinking 100% even though I know it be true. I can never really tell if it is my wisdom speaking or my Ego telling me it's OK to slack off and not do anything productive - this is something that leads me to question my intentions anytime that kind of thought comes up; to just go with the flow of things. I do go with the flow of things in general (this goes hand in hand with being indifferent to the small trivialities of life), but when it comes to meditation for example, I am always telling myself that I need to get started already and put in the effort but can't ever seem to set a time and do it consistently. That's why when I have the train of thought that maybe I'm not ready for it and I will start when it is the right time I question - is this me going with the flow of things or my Ego making an excuse for me being lazy in flowery language? I think this was the reason for asking my HS the 2nd question - maybe to get a slap on the wrist to get off my ass and do it already .

[TraineeHuman]

Meditation frees us from slavery to the mechanical process of thinking. That is its whole purpose, in the initial stages. It enables you to turn the thinking on and off at will.

When people talk of “the mind”, this can mean any of a variety of things. It can mean just the mechanical process of thinking, which admittedly is 5D but it goes only as far as a robot or a computer can go.

Then, of course, there’s the Great Spirit. This is the Universal Mind – or what Chester calls “the will of the cosmos”.

There are other things everywhere in between which are sometimes called “mind”. Zen Buddhism had a huge debate for centuries about “What is mind (in a deeper sense)?” Eventually there was majority agreement, even, that it was more accurate to talk of “no-mind” anywhere that people talked of “mind”. For instance, whenever you deliberately not-know about something, that means you’re using your no-mind. It’s kind of a “glass half empty” approach in preference to a “glass half full”one, though there’s more to it than that. That’s a whole other discussion, but some of the issues were covered in the following thread: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ions&p=3883858

In Western society, our whole education system and also other aspects of the culture develop “the mind” in the sense of the mechanical thinking robot/computer in 5D plus insights (8D), along with some use of anything that lies between 5D and 8D. The Western mind is generally very sneaky and clever. This is because it fails to use or integrate or be aware of parts of us all that lie at higher Ds than the eighth.

Unfortunately, Western culture teaches people to try to use the Western mind to control and conquer the whole of reality. Not that reality can ever be wholly controlled.

The Western mind uses extremes. This is because it takes concepts (or symbols, or pictures) and, in effect, pretends that the word, or the concept, is the thing that it points to. Any extreme is a lie.

However, meaning is something which exists and works in every dimension, even the highest (as does meaninglessness also). The problem is, we use 5D concepts or words or symbols or pictures, and the Western mind mistakes these for their meanings.

In reality, meaning always depends mostly on how those 5D pointers (words, concepts. etc) are being used in the given situation. How they are being experienced. The overall particular situation determines most of the meaning. The word only indicates which area of the map we need to be looking in. The meaning depends mostly on its use, and not on its label.

The Western mind incessantly mistakes the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself.

Members are telling me on this thread that they have difficulty meditating, or traveling OB, because they find it hard to let go of their thinking mind. That almost leaves us in a vicious circle. But I hope this post at least explains why it’s necessary to just drop the Western mind when one is trying to meditate or go OB. Also that the Western mind has major limits to what it can do, and in meditation or OB experience it’s out of its depth, and can only create mischief. Unfortunately on the Forum I can only use words. But I trust it’s clear that this post isn’t offering a theory of some sort, or a way to conceptually control things. Rather, this post is intended as a pointing to certain meanings.

There’s obviously a big need at the present stage for me to explain or point to more about what meditation does and doesn’t do. Also more about what some different types of meditation are, and what some of the challenges are for people entirely new to it. I’ll be doing that in my next post or two – or for however many posts it might take.

[kintun]

Hi!
Thank you for the very good information you are sharing with all us here.... I've read a few times that you protect yourself before traveling. May I ask how do you do that?
Thanks again!

[TraineeHuman]

Hi kintun,
Thank you for asking an important question. There has already been some discussion of or information about this topic in posts #45 and #64 and #191, among others.

My intuition tells me you have developed some healing energy – your chi or life-energy is flowing and you have some ability to control it and use it. For you I would therefore suggest using much the same method as I use for myself. That is, basically, to surround myself with healing light (preferably the golden light, but the pure white light is also acceptable) before I go to sleep and to intend that the healing light is and will be protecting me and also healing me in advance of anything negative or harmful I may experience while asleep. I find it is very, very important to protect and heal not only myself and my physical body but also all the individual cells that make up my physical body.

It appears to be true, as far as I know, that creating psychic protection for the physical body automatically also creates psychic protection for the astral body. You can also cover yourself with healing light while you are travelling in your astral body.

If you find you are under attack or in a negative place while astral traveling, you can always call on your guardian angels for help and protection. You may not see them, but they will always respond if you are in genuine danger of harm of any kind, provided you ask for their help.

[soleil]

hey guys, i have been reading the SOBT pdf, that was posted above. it is an indirect method that helps teach you to do it in less than 3 days. there is a mathematical approach, and it is similar but different to other methods. i'm just sharing it, as an option for others.

basically it helps you do it upon awakening, instead of upon falling asleep.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by teradactyl (here)
hey guys, i have been reading the SOBT pdf, that was posted above. it is an indirect method that helps teach you to do it in less than 3 days. there is a mathematical approach, and it is similar but different to other methods. i'm just sharing it, as an option for others.

basically it helps you do it upon awakening, instead of upon falling asleep.

Great stuff, teradactyl. I know you're highly capable of coming up with very useful material for us all.

As I mentioned in post #23, everyone actually is OB at the moment when they wake up. Trouble is, we're "normally" so focused on the physical we don't realise we're popping in and out of 3D for the first twenty minutes. So, an exercise that sensitises us to the fact that we're still OB then -- or popping in and out of OB -- makes great sense.

I've had a very strong intuitive feeling and expectation for nearly two weeks now that at least one thing would happen that would change the game and make it easier for us.

Undoubtedly this -- and whatever else is coming -- is also a product of the group's intention to make it all easier. Good work intending, folks! I hope people can all manage to try this exercise out several times in the next fortnight. And please do tell us what happens, folks, or if nothing happens. It's all valuable data, even if you feel you have nothing new to say.

I'll continue with saying some things about the basics of meditation, because it's all transferable to learning to be OB -- except in places where it's obviously different.

I've been expecting some minor miracles because the commitment from many of you is so strong. That means that the mysteriously magical higher D parts of all of us will have been working busily, and it's only a matter of time, folks.

[TraineeHuman]

The ability to influence people you meet or know depends on whether you have released, and then developed, certain abilities inside you. Meditation is what releases all such abilities, possibly including meditation from a previous lifetime. It still takes practice, of course, to master such abilities. But, for example, I can get a whole group of people to temporarily adopt a thought and feeling that I am holding still powerfully enough.

How does that work? Well, in response to AwakeInADream I’ve already mentioned how successful manifesting depends on being able to at least hold one point of view still (which is an 8D skill) plus the ability to hold one intention still plus the ability to hold one thought still. Actually, it involves more than that, but I won’t go into even higher Ds for now.

AwakeInADream was asking about lifting or thinning the veil to higher dimensions. What we all need to do individually, though, is to get into relationship with the higher D parts of ourselves. That is precisely what meditation does, over time. We need to lift the veil within ourselves, and only then it will lift on the outside as well.

Various people talk about “ascension”. Well, what we need instead is “descension”, if there is such a word. We need a descent of the higher intelligence and light in our higher D parts more fully into our bodies and hearts and minds. That’s what meditation also does, if used properly. Make your light shine more and more strongly – that’s what I want and suggest you to achieve. That’s what meditation can do for you, eventually.

Of course, the more that the veil has been lifted in a general way for you, the more natural, if not easy, it should be for you to separate from the lowest level, which is the physical. That’s because you’ll already have a strong sense, even if maybe not a clear one, of what some higher levels might involve.

[TraineeHuman]

I’ve been reading the SOBT book. I’ve tried all the variations of the initial exercise and they all worked, first try.

The initial exercise is just to feel some separation from your physical body.
To quote the instructions:
“The most important thing is not to think too hard and not to lose those first seconds of awakening.”

Another quote:
“Interesting Fact! At School of Out-of-Body Travel seminars, the main task consists not in explaining the proper procedure, but merely in getting participants to follow it to the letter. Even if that goal is only halfway accomplished, success is inevitable.”

The next stage is to start doing more, like locating an object, etc.

Then there's what they call "the phase". They recommend you only try learning that on days off from work. They explain how to use that to travel to other planets, or forward or back in time, etc.

Just read it and follow the instructions, folks.

The book is also full of detailed descriptions of the astral journeys different individuals took, as remembered by those individuals.

[AwakeInADream]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
Various people talk about “ascension”. Well, what we need instead is “descension”, if there is such a word. We need a descent of the higher intelligence and light in our higher D parts more fully into our bodies and hearts and minds. That’s what meditation also does, if used properly. Make your light shine more and more strongly – that’s what I want and suggest you to achieve. That’s what meditation can do for you, eventually.

I totally agree that "descension" is much more important than "ascension", and I have a feeling that this may very well be 'the meaning of life'. To fully manifest in the 'here and now' all of the powers we can obtain from the higher dimensions.

If we use the glyph of the Tree of Life from the Kabbalah so that each Sephiroth represents each of the D's that you are talking about so that Malkuth would be 3D and Kether would be 10D (or higher?), then we could also take the notion from the Kabbalah that no Sephiroth (or dimension) is any more holy than any other, that they are all equally as holy.

In fact this physical 3D world is the end result of God's glorious creation, what started out as a spark in the highest dimension, eminated through each D following the pattern of a lightning flash until it reached us here in the physical world. This is it! The meaning for our very existence as spiritual beings is here in the physical world that we created and are still creating.

Of course it's not finished yet and it is by no means perfect, but I think it could be a 'perfect world' if we all carry on searching up through the higher dimensions, but most importantly of all, that we take what we find there and manifest it here. I may be an 'idealist' but this is the only thing that makes sense to me, still I am aware that perfection may take aeon's to achieve realistically. We must try.

Behind the illusion of entropy, perfection swells.

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

John Lennon 'Imagine'

Disclaimer: I may very well be talking nonsense here, so don't take me too seriously. 'The meaning of life' lol

[TraineeHuman]

The SOTB material is very easy to follow. It doesn’t take up much of your time. I certainly hope everyone who reads this thread tries it out soon. Especially the people who have said they aspire to astral travel some day but not right now!

The SOTB material should remove any perception in anyone here that astral travel is difficult to achieve. We can then build from there. From now on I’ll be assuming that you’ve already successfully done the stage one exercise.

Meditation enables one to go OB traveling in higher levels of 4D and then 5D and even higher. Meditation is like a rocket ship that goes straight up. OB travel is like a glider that travels horizontally for most of the time.

When I started astral travel, for the first year I seemed to be in 4D but gradually kept going higher within the levels of 4D. Then I read someone who said it was much more fun and more subtle to travel in 5D, even though it may seem strange and kind of abstract at first. Because I had done a considerable deal of meditation, I found I could naturally astral travel in 5D. It was indeed much more fun and more interesting. But I may not have tried it so soon had I not read someone saying: “Try traveling through the dimension of pure thought.” I’d like to now pass that on to you.

Reading the SOTB material brings back memories from when I was first learning astral travel. Two of the suggested methods are rotating your energy body while keeping your physical body still, and rubbing your energy hands together while keeping your physical hands still. I now remember these were things I often used to do to reassure myself that I was “out”.

The lower astral looks and feels almost the same as the physical world. Initially, I used to travel all over the planet, occasionally meeting other travelers. I was mostly only interested in learning about personal growth and spirituality and transpersonal psychology then, so I sought out any traveler who had information on these.

I got to know a lot of cities in the US, for example, by their bridges. Then, some years later, I’d see a movie set in one of those cities. I’d think: “Oh, so Minneapolis is the city with that bridge.” One town looked much the same as any other, particularly in any one country.

Then I got into visiting many lower-4D pseudo-“heavens” that every religion, and every sub-sect of any religion, had there. In 4D thoughts materialize instantly, so people build entire pseudo-“worlds” together there. Or they create a very deceptive external façade to themselves.

Then I got more interested in visiting other planets and moons in the solar system. I found I seemed to learn much more there about things like spirituality. But after several years that became passé too.

By this time I had well and truly discovered 5D travel, which made me lose interest in almost anything 4D. I made contact with “spiritual” groups in the middle to upper fifth. Some of them led me to individuals alive in the physical. Those individuals became my spiritual or psychological or psychic teachers.

Somebody who astral travels a great deal but doesn't meditate a huge amount could spend a lifetime of OB travel never going further than 5D. Indeed, even to approach the 6D border seems like falling off the edge of the world. And it is precisely that, provided we're talking about the world of form. But I found that 6D was again far more satisfying and fascinating even than it was in 5D.

From 4D on, it's possible to access information about anything whatsoever. However, things like defense secrets are usually under heavy camouflage and also have powerful psychic guards to keep you away.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
Various people talk about “ascension”. Well, what we need instead is “descension”, if there is such a word. We need a descent of the higher intelligence and light in our higher D parts more fully into our bodies and hearts and minds. That’s what meditation also does, if used properly. Make your light shine more and more strongly – that’s what I want and suggest you to achieve. That’s what meditation can do for you, eventually.

I totally agree that "descension" is much more important than "ascension", and I have a feeling that this may very well be 'the meaning of life'. To fully manifest in the 'here and now' all of the powers we can obtain from the higher dimensions.

I agree enormously with what you mean.

I guess, though, I would say the meaning of X is always X, whatever X may be. But if we fully manifest the higher power, then we're more fully here, aren't we? The meaning of life is the meaning we can manifest into our life and the lives of others. And that's life at its fullest.

If we use the glyph of the Tree of Life from the Kabbalah so that each Sephiroth represents each of the D's that you are talking about so that Malkuth would be 3D and Kether would be 10D (or higher?), then we could also take the notion from the Kabbalah that no Sephiroth (or dimension) is any more holy than any other, that they are all equally as holy.

In fact this physical 3D world is the end result of God's glorious creation, what started out as a spark in the highest dimension, eminated through each D following the pattern of a lightning flash until it reached us here in the physical world. This is it! The meaning for our very existence as spiritual beings is here in the physical world that we created and are still creating.

Of course it's not finished yet ...

I understand there are some schools of yoga or Hinduism that teach that once a person can be stable in Nirvana (14D), they should permanently let go of and be divorced from everything in lower dimensions. That's very misguided, as I suggested in the following post: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post531897

That's the ultimate escapism. (And what a waste!) At lesser levels too, escapism into spiritual bliss is the ultimate bonbon -- or it seems to be. But it's an even greater bonbon to ultimately experience the sadness in the physical world being transformed into pure joy.

[AwakeInADream]

Hi TraineeHuman!

I have been mulling over an idea for some time, an idea for a prolonged meditation that I feel would be of great benefit for me. The reason I have put off it's execution is because I also feel that it could be of great harm to me. It could go either way, so I have as yet done nothing with this idea. So I will ask your advice.

My idea is this: That I should meditate for an extended period on only one subject, and that this should be a complete exploration and acceptance of my own death. That I should think of nothing else but my own death for many hours, and thus drain out a lifetimes worth of fear. To die fully in the mind, but still live.

Should I do this?

Could this harm me psychologically? Would it help? Could I go insane?

I have a very strong desire to kick 'death' right up the ass, but I am a little afraid that it might bite back....